Drained and Depleted: Harness your ADHD to FUEL rather than deplete you

Kate: [: 00:00:00

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings, and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm, and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey. Here's today's episode.

education. He's a fantastic [: 00:01:00

At the coach approach training academy, he founded the center for ADHD coaching excellence with fellow coach Tamra Rosier, who has also been on the podcast. And she's coming back to talk about her new book. And Cap is now curious about ADHD and the role of emotions, motivation, leadership, and living a life with less stress and more balance and equanimity.

Is deeply committed to upholding excellence and integrity in the field of ADHD coaching. Can't wait to bring this conversation to you. Here's my chat with Cameron Gott. Cam, welcome to the podcast. I'm delighted to have you here. It's amazing. We've just been talking off camera and I quickly had to press record because, um, you were giving me so much golden nuggets, so many golden nuggets that it was important that we just kind of get straight into the conversation.

[: 00:02:00

Because I think it's really powerful that I think a lot of people think, oh, okay, now I understand what's going on. Now I understand this ADHD, like everything's just going to click into place, but unfortunately that's the easy bit, isn't it? And then you have to implement. Perspective, change, reflection.

Can you tell me a little bit about guess what you do when someone comes to you and says, right, I ADHD and the coaching that you kind of bring in from there?

Cameron: That's a really good question. It's so interesting. It's that right here I have this ADHD and now things to just click into place and often that we forget that ADHD is still in play.

still on board and that the [: 00:03:00

And everything will be fine. And this is something that happens with calendars. It's like, well, the next six weeks is really rough, but if I can just get to that, that clear time, because I know there's that clear time, that's that hopeful planning and sort of like, it's that destination where, oh, I can, I can let down and it's, it's not going to be so exhausting.

thing and it explains a lot.[: 00:04:00

That now the real challenge is to take that. And as you said, to take that and apply that knowledge, to put it into practice and to create change.

Kate: You mentioned word, the words performance, wellbeing and perspective work and having a relationship with change. So we can move forward because that's what coaching is all about.

Isn't it? It's like. Noticing, reflecting on the past, noticing where we are, and then implementing change so we can move forwards. And with ADHD, like you said just then, it's that kind of like the conundrum, or the irony of it, is that sometimes our ADHD Stands in our way, doesn't it? And blocks us. And it almost, we create these sort of self sabotaging loops where we kind of go, right, this time it's going to be different.

my diary is going to be free [: 00:05:00

Cameron: and that here's the interesting thing is that in coaching I am, um Paying attention to where their attention is.

ort of a sign of weakness or [: 00:06:00

So they're coming with this focus on the performance that's not happening. And they're coming to me saying, you're going to help me with my performance, whether it's in the house, whether it's at my work, whether it's in my relationship, I've realized that ADHD is impacting my performance. And so that's something we do in coaching is we look at sort of setting goals and helping them identify the change they want to have.

So two things in particular is there's this focus on performance and can I get some relief from this? pain point. Can I make the negative thing go away? And in coaching, it is a strength based approach of, yes, we want to relieve that pain point, but we want to start to think about what does a future look like where there's positive change?

ing values and strengths and [: 00:07:00

And there is no one there to stop them from doing that and to get us in, come on, you, you know, getting gear, get going, who do you think you are? So this, this narrative can kind of be there and we're not even aware of it, Kate. So this developing this awareness of the ADHD, but then who you are as an individual moving through the world and to start to have perspective and step back and consider.

have to have an impact. It's [: 00:08:00

So can I help them have an impact in the world to add value, to create change? But also at less of the cost, the cost that goes into masking or showing up or working to some expectation that may be real, that may be constructed in their brain, because with expectations, we will take them up to the top level, the 100th floor perfectionism, or we will.

w, just go against authority [: 00:09:00

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. I think what you're, you're saying is, is really so relatable, but I wonder what you think, you know, when you say that you work with women who want to make an impact. The phrase that you used to think was they have no choice to make an impact because our ADHD is this is driving us.

It's this rest relentless motor. Well,

Cameron: and I'll, and if I can, it's, there's the ADHD, but there's also this compelling reason or that's our cause that may or may not be related to ADHD. It's like looking at the whole person so that yes, there can be, there can be a, um, the ADHD that is, that is propelling.

is just, they see it and it [: 00:10:00

And this may be ADHD, Kate. This is the interesting thing is people get hung up on what is ADHD and what is not, but this there's some change that they see that needs to happen in the world. And so they see it because in part, no one else is seeing what they're seeing. Now, is that ADHD? Possibly. It's certainly their divergent wiring.

The ability to sort of see around corners or see things before others. I have a script writer of a client who They write scripts and they notice it's like my stuff that was relevant that I was doing 10 years ago Is relevant today out in the world and so it's like they're before their time and sometimes

Kate: Can I ask why do you question whether it is or isn't adhd?

se for me, I see that as all [: 00:11:00

Cameron: So the, the group that I work at, with work with is, and it's this, and part of the coaching is. That the ADHD management is a means to an end. It is in the service of some greater, bigger thing. And so this is the power of context. They have things to do. They didn't come, they're not coming to me to just manage their ADHD.

, I could hear, um, that you [: 00:12:00

So having this vision that, yes, it might be related to ADHD, but it's really about educating and helping people feel better about themselves. And so this is just the leaders that I work with, both male and female, is this, Kind of, I have this desire to do something, but the tremendous energy that goes into it and how the ADHD can just sort of be these sea anchors.

Slowing them down and I won't get into the wait a sec. It's a superpower thing. Yes. It is a superpower It's a superpower and it's a super C anchor drain drainer But if we can start to identify where our energy is going and back to that Well, what is ADHD? And what is not is that people get to this awareness place and it's like, okay, right.

I need to label [: 00:13:00

And they're not taking the steps moving forward to create change for themselves and to effectively manage the ADHD. They keep bumping back into these old patterns. So starting with identifying the habits that are not working for you. So often we're like, okay, I've got my ADHD diagnosis. And it's like, and last night I started a class for, um, individuals who are trying to improve their relationships.

It's like, I've got to improve my relationship. I got to improve my Uh, relationship and I know that I have to fix my ADHD and, and do better habits and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And they're focused on new habits and it's, it's that yes, but it's identifying the patterns and the habits that are not working for us.

[: 00:14:00

I don't know where to take a first step. There's the monitor kind of like monitoring a situation or really vigilant, but then inability to again, move forward. And then there's the controller of like, I got to get control over this thing and waiting into that messy area of change. That's a threat to stasis and third things being as they are.

ng us. So in coaching, we're [: 00:15:00

And challenging either, or is not good. These people that come to this coaching class last night, they're, they'll have their spouse like, ah, it's the ADHD. Now I'm going to give you an ultimatum, fix this or else yikes, right? Talk about a way to just absolutely freeze out somebody to give them an ultimatum to change.

And then here's this person who is supposedly a support, just saying change or else. So here's this support so close to you. That is. You know, I won't accept you until you fix this thing. So challenging and not supportive. That's no good. But then there's the supportive without challenging of, you know what?

e okay as you are. And then, [: 00:16:00

And so it is the stuff that I do is not today. It's not a, a, a hack that's going to happen today that's going to change your life. It is hard work and it takes time because. Someone's had ADHD for 47 years. They're not going to get a strategy or a hack that's going to change the way they engage in the world in two days.

It's more like six or seven months.

ke the change makers and the [: 00:17:00

And someone messaged me not that long ago and said, well, can you speak to the people who are the ones that are. Yeah. Constantly overwhelmed who don't get things done and we're not driven by our hyperactive kind of restlessness and we're not the ambitious ones We're genuinely just trying to get out of bed and tidy our houses and look after our children and we are struggling because We are depleted by just living with ADHD, not because we're trying to change the world and launch businesses and start podcasts.

Where would you go with that? Because I know, obviously, medication is super helpful for things like that. But with coaching, how do you work with people who are just in a, in a state of overwhelm and freeze?

ct and, and leaders and, and [: 00:18:00

Kate: It's shaming for people, isn't it? When you hear about like exactly what you say, like their ADHD has been their driver. Yes. It might have been part of like lots of other sort of life problems or, you know, Relationship problems or parenting problems. But if that hyperactivity isn't there and they just really struggle with, with the rest of the A DHD, it is important that we focus on that.

And I don't think I do that in the podcast enough. So I'm gonna hold my hands up now and say, let's talk about that.

Cameron: Yeah. Um, so I was diagnosed with inattentive A DHD, so I don't have a hyperactive piece. The, the getting outta bed. I, for, I think most of the nineties, uh, I was, uh, in my head thinking, you know, what's the point, what am I doing?

knowing I had ADHD. And even [: 00:19:00

So I'd like to use an example of someone I worked with. She's a music teacher and she came to me and because she said, you know, I, I go to school. I, uh, I show up, I give 110 percent to everything I do. I come home and I collapse at four o'clock in the afternoon and I can't do anything. So this going in, she has to teach her music.

? So that was the pain point [: 00:20:00

I Um, just burning the candle at both ends during school, I come home and I'm completely depleted. So here she is, she's having an impact, but she's not really aware of it. Her energy level is just so much. And so, you know, I, it's the interesting thing is that. She doesn't see herself as a leader and she's not seeing herself as a leader.

She's seen herself as just someone who is really struggling. And this thing is just beating her down and she's wanting answers and she's wanting change. So starting to look at then how she navigates her day and these patterns where the first thing we did was look at how can we start to save some energy?

tings, hyper trying to hyper [: 00:21:00

So this sort of learning of, first of all, it's not this moral failing number one, because it's this, this sense of, I am not worthy. I need to, I need to work 150 percent more than everyone else. I have to show up more because of this. Lack of self confidence and doubt. So back to this idea of there's a commitment to coaching Kate, but there's also this moving to a place of you are deserving, even though you're, if you're not a leader and getting out and, and a captain of industry and making things happen and you're struggling to get out and help the kids get off to school, you are deserving, deserving, deserving of support and that this ADHD does not.

Define who you are. [: 00:22:00

Here's the one other thing I'll say is that it's finding this sort of the fundamental dilemma that she was facing and sort of music teachers, what do they do? They have recitals. So she's standing there in front of parents and her back is the parents and she's up there and she's cringing and she's feeling judgment.

masking. Again, more energy [: 00:23:00

Why does she do this work? Why is she drawn to go in and overcome these challenges every day to do this work? She could quit, but she's not, she is compelled to do this work. And so we go into there, the values of that. And it's like the love of music, the love of children and how music connects people. And that was the central theme that sort of switched for her of how she could go in.

e to facilitate them and the [: 00:24:00

So she sort of flipped the switch on this high associative divergent thinking of instead of having it inundating her and putting her on absolute edge. And elevating her nervous system. So she just was in fight flight the whole time to, Oh, what's really going on? The energy I'm feeling here is the connection and the love.

Kate: And that energizes, doesn't it? It energizes and we

Cameron: take an energy drainer and turn it into an energy provider. Finding this sort of way forward into creating change is more than just checking boxes. Or trying to optimize your day. The other thing is then kind of looking at things other than time and time optimization.

So paying attention to that, [: 00:25:00

They are a resource that help us anticipate. What is coming through our day, right? When we, uh, this morning I'm walking around and my people, my, my, my wife and my child are looking at me and they're like, you seem a little nervous. I'm like, yeah, I'm nervous. I'm about to go live with Kate and it's that nervousness is actually a good thing gets kind of gets me going.

And it's like, All right. That anxiety is okay. What happens with ADHD is the anxiety then goes from a two to an 11. And then we're up here and we're in fight flight. And this is how to bring that down.

t the music teacher, because [: 00:26:00

Because she's there and her, the children's performance is reflective on her teaching. And so she's being judged. She's feeling ready to be criticized. And RSD has such an energy depletor because it's, it's there. And we are feeling exposed. Like you said, that she was feeling exposed, that she's ready to.

She wants to meet these parents high expectations, but maybe these parents' expectations, like, look at my kid on stage, and six months ago they weren't playing a musical instrument. Now look, they're doing with a smile on their face and they maybe wouldn't have even noticed if there was a, a note out place or anything.

rs, interviews, new courses, [: 00:27:00

And it hijacks my nervous system. And every time I sort of launch a new kind of workshop series, I'm not doing this again. I'm just not doing this again because it really impacts my nervous system so much. And I think so many people can relate to it in different ways, like whatever they commit to. They want to do it because they want to create impact.

the meeting with her energy, [: 00:28:00

But where I, where my passion and my motivation and my enthusiasm is, yeah, let's, let's, let's use that. And then I can, take time to rest and decompress afterwards. Um, that intentionality of where our energy is and where we work with the, the, where we can kind of almost. Pull, you know, put down the accelerator and thought full throttle with awareness with maybe things in place afterwards Yeah, we're gonna have it at a free evening.

Maybe the next day We're having a bit more of a chill day and we can be in protective mode and preventative mode so we're not being in reactive mode all the time and Using, like you say, that our emotions to navigate and guide us as opposed to constantly derail us. That's what's been the most helpful thing for me, I think.

Cameron: [: 00:29:00

They should be able to go 150 percent all the time. So it's this, the metaphor I use is the size of your plate, the size of your plate and what you can put on your plate. The things you can do and it's that we don't know where the edge of our plate is. That's an ADHD thing to know what our capacity is.

n't, we don't put our toe in [: 00:30:00

Um, yes, it can be, but it also With

Kate: limitations.

Cameron: Yeah. And so this recognizing that limitations are not a weakness. You have a certain amount of time, energy and attention every day and starting to kind of think about how you distribute it, where it gets distributed and to really do this almost like an energy audit to consider.

are going along and we just [: 00:31:00

That takes energy. That takes effort to come back to instead of trying to build out that plate to a larger dinner plate is to really think about the portions that you're putting on that, who's making demands. And again, with women, it's these demands in, at home, in their relationship, at work, and this context switching, that having to go from one role to another, to another, constantly.

You go to work and you're about to do a presentation and then the school calls. Right? Something's going on at school and you have to switch that and this, this juggling and just so we sort of like juggle through the day to kind of keep this frenetic pace. And that's not sustainable. It's not sustainable.

itching, the role switching. [: 00:32:00

And that's at the detriment to wanting to feel fulfilled and wanting to feel creative. And like we are showing up in the world. And like you say, it's this paradox, this constant paradox. And. I, I, before this podcast, I, before I was diagnosed, I had a podcast called the ambitious mum and the ambitious mum for me was questioning constantly.

s on me, but doesn't feed my [: 00:33:00

And it was this. I mean, it sounds a bit kind of grandiose to say, but it was like this big philosophical question that I wanted to get answered. And I was going to different experts and having conversations with therapists. And I couldn't get the answer apart from when I got my ADHD diagnosis, which kind of did answer most of the questions.

But I do feel that unfortunately for women, especially because. The understanding of ADHD in women is so new and we've lived with it for so long that the weight of it is, is, is, can be suffocating for, for many of us because we're still living this imbalance of society and we're still living and going through what all these expectations and pressures that were put on us as women.

Right.

Cameron: And I, I have a hot take. Hot take is that men can have ADHD and women can't.

Kate: Okay, explain.

ients telling me about these [: 00:34:00

He's, uh, You know, he's dynamic. He's an entrepreneur. He's Richard Branson, you know, and as a woman goes in, she's like, it's questioned. It's like, oh, that's not proper that I mean, these sort of these 19th century societal principles have been sort of carried along. And what is that about? It's

Kate: underpinning, it's still underpinning so much, even though we're in this, this moment in time where we're all ready to, to, to rid of it, you know, to let go of it, to just release it.

and careers for themselves. [: 00:35:00

pressure that they're putting on themselves to show up in all these capacities. I think they're making choices where they don't have to be and do it all. I don't know. I could be speaking out of turn, but maybe we're still another generation away. I don't know.

Cameron: No, you're absolutely right. I mean, it is happening and it's because of people like you who are not going to sit by quietly.

And, and sort of back to this, do not wait for permission or wait for someone else to create the change for you, is to start to think about, I'm deserving, this is a dilemma, this is a challenge for me, this is a pain point, and to start to, uh, articulate needs, this does not have to be done by yourself. So, the partner who is frustrated and not understanding is start to ask for specific help in a specific area.

pful is if you could do this [: 00:36:00

You know what? Your constant judgment Is not helping this situation is not helping me and to, you know, either if they step up and help or they step back a bit and finding those people who are going to be supportive, but also challenging, but it starts with the individual to say, you know what I'm deserving of some change here.

And I'm going to start to advocate for myself.

at environment, because some [: 00:37:00

Factors at play here where success can kind of come easier or where it does feel like this ADHD is a weight and we're never going to come out of it. And I really hope that through this conversation right now, just those pain points, those, those little. Um, nuggets of awareness that people can bring where if you want to listen back to this, this conversation and write down a few things where you are noticing, like noticing the habits that you want to break, noticing the pain points, noticing those energy expenditures, because not everyone can go.

e, whatever you want to call [: 00:38:00

That's not going anywhere, but we can find new ways, new paths, new strategies. And I just want to go to like, what if people are listening and kind of going, yes, I would love to work with Kat. I'm like, what, what do you do? Like, do you take on new one to one clients? Um, are you training ADHD coaches? Tell us a little bit about what you're doing in the world right now.

Cameron: Uh, well, right now I'm doing, it's, uh, I'm doing a lot, uh,

Kate: Are you listening to your own advice?

Cameron: That's the question. My, my wife was like, uh, when are we going to see you? As I was like, Oh, there's an indication. Yeah. I'm noticing some that my plate is a bit full. Uh, so, so I, I, I do a lot of teaching. I was a teacher before I was a coach.

ort of, and I actually tried [: 00:39:00

So I do a lot of, um, presenting and educating. And so I will. Teach classes for both individuals with ADHD. And I do a lot of coach training. Um, so, and it's, I work for the, um, coach approach training Institute. I've been with them for, for a long, long time. And so that is a level two ICF coach training program.

Uh, that I, that I'm a part of, I also have started, uh, the center for ADHD coaching excellence with Tamra Razier, who wrote the book, uh, your brain, your brain's not broken. She's,

Kate: she's fabulous. She's been on the podcast.

going to be doing something, [: 00:40:00

They've got their basic training and they're wanting to take their training to the next level. And so we're looking at, we're really excited about bringing that out in the new year, Melissa Orloff, uh, who wrote the book on ADHD marriage. I, this is the coaching class that I do. For her, um, as a follow up to, um, the ADHD partner taking the seminar and they get to the end and it's like, okay, now I have this information.

How do I put it into play? And so that's a class that I teach. I love what you said earlier about, you don't have to work with a coach to create change. You don't have to work with me. To kind of navigate this place between awareness and change. The ACO is a wonderful resource for that, uh, ADHD coaches organization, that is a place where you can go and find a directory of qualified coaches.

So that's based [: 00:41:00

So I've had that thing to get out of the house. So it's like to get out of bed, because if you don't have something to get out of bed for, it's like, well, I'm just going to stay in bed because I got nothing lined up. It's sort of like having these activities and finding individuals to engage with.

Kate: But I think this conversation has been incredibly helpful.

excites me is that there's a [: 00:42:00

Cameron: It's one of the reasons this is one of my big areas of interest is the quality of ADHD coaching. That's a, that's a concerning piece. Um, but it's also addressable that when you take a DHD in coaching and kind of put them together in a Venn diagram, there's so much, uh, there's so much interpretation and that interpretation goes to kind of misinterpretation, misrepresentation of both coaching and hd.

t I do is it's educate about [: 00:43:00

So I think that's one of the things I, uh, the gift that I was offering was basically what to look for in a coach. So,

Kate: Yeah, I'm going to link back to that on the show notes. So people will have that, um, cam, thank you so much for your time. It's so, so appreciated. I'll make sure everyone's got your details and all the, um, all the websites that you've just mentioned.

So they can go and have a little research themselves, but really appreciate your time.

Cameron: I really enjoyed it, Kate. Thank you for having me.

entire library, my vault of [: 00:44:00

This is going to be an amazing resource for you to support you and guide you even more on more niche topics and conversations, so you can really thrive and learn to live your best life with ADHD. I'm so excited about this. It's the toolkit on Apple podcast. You get a free trial.