The Gentle Power of Herbal Medicine for ADHD Women: Natural Ways to Support Sleep, Focus and Hormonal Health

Kate: 00:00:01

Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey. Here's today's episode.

Kate: 00:00:49

So welcome back everyone to another episode.

Kate: 00:00:51

Of the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

Kate: 00:00:54

I'm Kate Moor Youssef, your host here as always, and today we're talking about herbal medicine, aromatherapy and how all these can be supportive for many conditions and issues and traits that come up with adhd, especially in women.

So we have Ellen Rowland here and she is a medical herbalist and aromatherapist and in her clinic she works one to one with people who are neurodivergent or think they're neurodivergent and she helps them improve their sleep, their mood, their focus and their hormonal and digestive health. Basically, she looks at the full lifestyle and helps them with that alongside adhd.

And she treats a wide range of acute and chronic health conditions. Along the way she works with an accepting and whole person approach and tailors treatment plans that work for her patients and their lives.

And she uses plant medicines, diet and lifestyle changes that are evidence based on gentle and effective to get lasting results for neurodivergent patients so they can finally thrive. So welcome Ellen, to the podcast. It's really good to have you here.

Ellen: 00:02:01

Thank you so much for having me, Kate. I'm really happy to be here.

Kate: 00:02:04

So, I mean, I'd love to hear.

Kate: 00:02:06

A little bit about how you sort of found yourself as a medical herbalist. I guess how that path has taken you to more of the. The neurodivergent clients that you are now seeing. Seeing.

Ellen: 00:02:17

Sure, yeah. So my story probably will sound quite familiar to a lot of the listeners.

I was diagnosed with ADHD age 34, but prior to that I struggled for a long time throughout my adult life with mental health issues, hormonal challenges as well. And I was kind of put from pillar to post by my doctors and other health professionals that I saw because they didn't understand that I had adhd.

And so I had a lot of ups and downs and challenges at work and I just got to a point where I thought, you know, what's going on here? And eventually taking a year out to go traveling led me to a herbal medicine practice and that was working in a community in Central America.

And the light bulb kind of came on for me and I thought, ah, this could be a really interesting avenue to explore. And eventually that's what led me to retrain as an aromatherapist and a herbalist ultimately.

And yeah, during my herbal medicine studies I was actually diagnosed and that really kind of made a lot of sense for me.

The pieces started falling into place and I thought, no, this is something I'd really like to support my patients with because all of that support that was missing during my childhood and in my young adult life, I'd love to kind of be that support and help people join the dots.

And I think with herbal medicine and aromatherapy, it's quite misunderstood generally, but it's broadly very safe to use alongside our modern day pharmaceutical medications. And because it works in a different way, it doesn't kind of counteract any of the benefits from our conventional medications.

There are a few exceptions which we can get into, but it's kind of helping your body to do its job normally. And it kind of, rather than masking symptoms that then come back once you stop taking them.

Herbal medicine is kind of a gentle long term approach that helps nudge the body back into balance if you like. And it can be combined with diet and lifestyle.

So in my clinic now, I work one to one and also in kind of group and workshop settings with lots of people, mainly women actually to support them with all of the different challenges and aspects and traits that come along with the whole ADHD picture. It's a really rich world.

Kate: 00:04:55

No, it's fascinating the fact that you're obviously in Central America and seeing it, you know, where, I guess where the sources of like herbal and plant medicine and understanding, like, I mean I've never been to Central America. It's, it is up there desperate to get there. But is that their first pillar of health or has that historically been their first pillar of health?

Ellen: 00:05:17

Yeah, and I think it is still quite a pillar for many communities in Central America. The the area where I was staying was the Caribbean side of Guatemala and it's a river based community.

The roads are the rivers if you like, everyone gets around in boats. The houses are very much kind of in the jungle on the banks of the river and hospitals are far away.

So a lot of the communities in that area do still rely quite heavily on plant based medicines. It's within their tradition. They've got a strong shamanic tradition out there and that comes through into the modern day as well.

Lots of families and communities rely primarily on plant based medicines. Just don't have the access.

Kate: 00:06:02

What I'm interested in is do you see this more plant based medicine healing their communities? I mean, are they showing up with similar traits as we are Bearing in mind they're in a totally different environment.

Obviously everyone goes through different sort of health and mental health complications wherever they are and whatever the challenges in those communities and there's still trauma and all sorts of things going on.

Do you see sort of this, the western nudge towards what we deal with, with the chronic overwhelm and the burnout and our nervous system dysregulation and how our perimenopause shows up and this sort of collision of, of our hormones and our nervous system and adhd we. I know obviously you weren't trained back then, but were you noticing that they were suffering like we are or is it a different kind of way of life?

Ellen: 00:06:54

The thing is there's a lot of poverty in Central America and in those communities and I think the firstly there's a deeper connection to the roots of those medicines and because they are just inherently living closer to nature in that particular area.

Certainly, you know, a lot of the employment is fishing, you know, subsistence types of employment and there's a necessity as well from just the amount of access they have to kind of modern day resources. I probably wasn't there long enough to really understand in a deep way the kind of challenges.

But I think if we're thinking about, we're seeing here in the west, our lifestyles are very overstimulated generally.

And I think for people with ADHD that adds another layer of challenge because modern day lifestyles, we're very screen based and our lives are very back to back. We have to do a lot of task switching. The expectation of jobs is often really high.

Juggling families, you know, especially with women, we have the childcare responsibilities often, but there's no kind of, there's not necessarily an accommodation made for that. Maybe the earning potential could suffer and so people are encouraged to just spin more and more plates.

I think for me that is where herbal medicine can come in because it forces us to sort of slow down and take a look at all of the things we've got going on and really evaluate kind of what are the things that are contributing to our Ill health. Maybe some of them are within our control. Maybe some of them are more systemic and outside of our control.

But I think when you sit down with a medical herbalist and you have that hour and a half, that initial consultation, you really look at all the different areas of your life, and you can really see, where have I lost connection to the things that bring me joy? You can find correlations and patterns between some of your symptoms and the way that your life currently is things you might not have even noticed.

And I think the difference, if we're thinking about the Central American communities, they're living, by necessity, much more in relationship with the natural world. You know, obviously there's a massive discrepancy between sort of the resources that they have access to.

So I wouldn't kind of glorify, you know, and say, look at them. They're doing it so much better than this, because a lot of the lifestyle out there is really hard.

But you can see the difference between the way our kind of modern lifestyle is. There's not that space to really look at the medicine we need in terms of, you know, space and time and nature connection.

And I think herbal medicine can be a nice way into sort of looking at that.

Kate: 00:09:42

Yeah, I definitely feel that so many of us are craving the space and to be able to breathe. And like you say, the modern external world often clashes with the nervous system, the sensitive nervous systems that we've got.

And we do better when we're in nature. We do better when we're outside, away from screens and the overstimulation. And that, unfortunately, is a fact.

And it's hard for us to find that, you know, unless we literally do take ourselves off to, you know, traveling or go and live somewhere very quiet and remote. But then there is that kind of conflict that we have that we do, like the stimulation as well.

So we sort of thrive off the stimulation, but sometimes it just gets too much. And I'm wondering with it, with the herbal medicine, is that. I mean, I see this with medicine as a.

As a whole, is it can't just be a sticking plaster because we have to make changes.

So I presume, you know, if someone comes to you and says, you know, that they're overwhelmed, they're not getting enough sleep, they're stressed at work, they're burnt out. The boundaries are all over the place. There's only so much a herbal medicine can do in that situation. And it's the same with medication.

It's the same with hrt. Like, you've got to make other Changes, not just take the medication and think there's going to be like a revolutionary kind of shift.

Ellen: 00:11:02

Absolutely. I think that's a really good point.

And I think when people kind of first arrive in my clinic and they've got a long list of, you know, things that they need support with, the first thing that we always do once we've done that initial consultation, is really look at what are the things that are within their ability to change right now, and maybe that might be more in the future, once we've been working together for a while. But I always try and base it on what's realistic for you at this point in time to change. What's the one small tweak that we can make?

And sometimes it doesn't happen straight away because we need a few appointments and just looking at the whole picture of their life to kind of. For the penny to drop sometimes and to go, okay, I can see how this thing is. Keep recurring in my life.

And actually, you know, in order for that to change, there's some other things that might need to change. And it's difficult because there's a lot of financial pressure. So it might not be that work can be the thing that changes.

But I think I always try and start with, well, what. What is the one thing you can do? Can you take 10 minutes outside in the morning with a cup of tea just to be in the.

Get some sunlight into your eyes if your sleep's struggling to help reset your circadian rhythm and to train your brain and produce those hormones that you need that are going to keep that regulation? So then when it comes to the evening, your body is set up more for sleep.

You know, can you take your phone out of the bedroom a couple of hours before bed and switch it off and have that protected time? You know, so we're not.

We're working with the herbs as a supportive scaffolding, if you like, but we're also looking at those other lifestyle changes that are so important.

Kate: 00:12:34

Yeah, yeah, I think. Thank you. Because it is so important that we try and do what we can within our control. So someone's coming to you.

What kind of situation are they finding themselves in? And why would they come to you over maybe going to a nutritionist? Like, what would be that sort of inflection point that they say, no, you know what?

I'd like to try the medical herbal route.

Ellen: 00:12:59

So some people come to me when they are already taking ADHD medication or they might be on hrt, but they just feel that it's not quite ticking all the boxes, or there's some other health issues that are ongoing that they haven't been able to diagnose or that their health care professional hasn't been able to diagnose and support. Support effectively. Some people come when they've got long term autoimmune conditions that need extra maintenance and support.

So the great thing about herbal medicine, as opposed to, well, in collaboration with nutrition, the good thing about herbal medicine is that we are trained in herbal medicine, but we're also trained in nutrition as well. We're trained in clinical skills similar to how a GP can assess blood pressure or do a respiratory examination. So.

So we're trained to look across the board.

And I guess what we have is the luxury of time, so we have the time to sit down with the patient, really think about their work, their emotions, their relationships, their diet, their lifestyle, and all the physical and mental health symptoms and conditions that they might be coming with. Plus the neurodivergence being a really specific kind of issue that we might need to look at in a really specific way.

And I think, I guess if someone was coming to me, the benefit that they would have is that I have lived experience of going through that process, getting the diagnosis, having lived experience of mental health conditions, understanding what types of things people are likely to find challenging or likely to find really beneficial. I mean, obviously it shows up differently in every person, but just going in with that knowledge of how we can approach different challenges.

And yeah, it's integrative, so it works alongside other medications, so it's really safe to take alongside most other, most other medications. So it's a nice gentle way that it can kind of slot into people's lives and you've got the benefit of that ongoing support.

So we are able to look at blood test results with the patients as well. We're able to send referral letters back to the gp, back to other health specialists, specialists if further tests are needed.

But it's that kind of safe space that they can always come back to.

Kate: 00:15:08

Yeah, I mean, how do gps respond to you when you do send letters and trying to collaborate together? Do they. Are they interested in what you do?

Ellen: 00:15:18

Some practitioners have a really good understanding of herbalism and they can see how we can actually support them to do their job. And that's the message. I'd really love to be a bit stronger because there's a lot we can do.

So some of them really appreciate it and work well with us and we can kind of cross refer. Some are not interested or they don't Understand, it's a real mixed picture.

Kate: 00:15:40

Yeah, it would be.

It would be lovely to see more sort of collaboration and see, you know, for the GP to then see that you're taking a bit of a weight off them and helping. And we are knowing a lot more.

You know, I've been working with lots of different, other supplement brands who are really doing amazing work, understanding about adaptogens and functional mushrooms and all the different, different ways that we can use sort of more herbal medicine to help with our adhd. I mean, that was one of the first things I did when I found out.

I mean, I was always taking supplements before, but I really went down a holistic rabbit hole and I trained as a. As a health coach myself and I really wanted to understand what else I could be doing if the medication just wasn't for me every single day.

And for me, I religiously take my supplements, I religiously drink herbal tea and use aromatherapy and magnesium salts. And I have, like, my own, probably quite a basic toolkit compared to what you. You have. And I'm sure you have lots of tinctures.

I can see in the background all the different things. But for a layperson who has a special interest, I could not do without, you know, certain, you know, herbs and supplements and everything.

And I wondered what were the ones? If, you know, I can. I know that you work one to one.

If someone can't come and see you one to one and they are feeling out of sorts or they're feeling overwhelmed or drained or depleted or burnt out. Often women who I speak to in paramenopause say that to me. They just say, I just feel so pulled. Pulled, pulled by all directions.

And we are at that midlife age where maybe, like, kids are getting older, but we have older parents. We're still in the throes of our career. Perimenopause, maybe marital stuff going on, hormones all over the place.

How can someone support themselves if they don't have access to a medical herbalist?

Ellen: 00:17:41

That's a really good question. Yeah. And it is challenging because the prescriptions that I put together are really tailored to that individual.

And I think there is a bit of a culture because there's so many new supplement brands and there's more awareness, like you say, of herbal medicine, which is brilliant, but there's a culture of, I'll just try this.

Someone's told me magnesium is good, or ashwagandha or whatever it might be, and it's kind of that, throwing a herb at the wall and seeing what sticks. And I really advise against that approach.

So at all possible, I would say do go and see a herbalist because they're going to make something really laser focused targeted for your specific symptoms. And there are people that offer low cost options if it's, if cost is a barrier for people.

There are herbalists that do offer low cost options and workshops as well, which are a bit lower cost and more accessible. So you can come and learn at talks or workshops.

But there are a few kind of key nervous system herbs and I think that's where I always start with people if they're not able to come and see me in clinic because the nervous system is such a key part of, of adhd, obviously. And some of the nervous system herbs that we use are quite gentle.

So again, I will caveat that just by saying not all herbs are going to be suitable for everyone. But for example, chamomile, German chamomile, which is Machicaria chamomile, it's a really lovely herb. It's calming. It acts on our GABA receptors.

So GABA is the neurotransmitter that I guess deactivates our sympathetic nervous system so our fight or flight and allows the parasympathetic, the calm, the rest and digest to take over.

And what chamomile does, because it's a slightly bitter herb, it helps to, it helps to regulate the digestive system and the vagus nerve that connects the brain to the digestive system that can tell our brain it's safe to relax. It can have an effect on that and put you into that parasympathetic state. It also can help with the nausea that can sometimes come along with stress.

Stress and trouble sleeping because it's got that calming action. It's a really lovely one, but it's not too drowsy compared to some herbs that you could use. So it's lovely to have as a, as a herbal tea.

Kate: 00:19:48

Yeah.

Ellen: 00:19:49

What I would say is to make sure that when you're buying herbs, you know, tea bags in the supermarket are, are fine for the taste, but the, the quality and the dosage that you're going to get is going to be much stronger if you can find or grow your own or find a good quality organic, loose herb tea.

Kate: 00:20:06

Okay. Why German chamomile?

Ellen: 00:20:08

German chamomile. So Roman chamomile and German chamomile both have a similar chemical profile.

But German chamomile, I think it's got slightly more of the digestive bitter action that you're looking for when you're taking it internally. Essential oil of chamomile is also really lovely. So you can put that in a diffuser and have that in your bedroom before sleep.

Or if you need to feel calm, you can have an inhaler. You have these little. They're a bit like a Vicks inhaler.

And you can put essential oils in those and keep them in your bag or in your pocket for when you're feeling stressed. And so that either German or Roman would be quite calming.

But the German chamomile tends to be the one we use internally because it's just got more of the compounds that we're looking for to have those effects.

Kate: 00:20:53

Okay. I have a chamomile tea every single night. And even though it's probably not. It is a supermarket chamomile tea.

But it is my kind of like my transition from a crazy, hectic day sitting on the couch, watching something on tv. I've been doing that religiously now for about at least three months. And my sleep for sure has got better.

I also just notice I really respond well to karma, like always, even if I have it in the afternoon and I just want to kind of start taking things down a notch. I notice myself yawning more and just like relaxing more and not. I have quite sort of an agitated nervous system. It takes a lot.

I have to either sort of put myself in like a hot bath or have a tea or a weighted blanket or a hot water bottle or something quite physical to calm my nervous system. Otherwise I will just keep going and going and going and then totally burn out. So it's like I need that actual transition point to say, stop now.

You've done enough.

Ellen: 00:21:53

That's a really good point, actually, the kind of ritual nature, because all those things like the hot bath, hot water bottle, there's something physical what the actual ritual of making the tea. Because with a herbal loose tea, it's slightly different to when you kind of making your. Your builder's tea in the morning.

Kate: 00:22:09

You.

Ellen: 00:22:10

You need it to cover. You need it because the volatile oils that are having those effects that we want are. They'll.

They're volatile, so they will evaporate if you don't cover it.

So you've got to cover it and brew it for about 10, 15 minutes at least, and pouring it out and smelling the aroma, tasting the tea, that's all part of that ritual. That's then telling your vagus nerve and your nerv general, okay, this is a time for calm.

And the more you can build that as a ritual, you know, 10, 15 minutes a day, it doesn't take long, but you can build that connection with the aroma, that connection with the herb and the making of the tea. You train your nervous system to go, okay, this is my time to feel calm. And over time that can actually build.

And so when you even think about your tea, your nervous system starts to drop into that parasympathetic state state. So it's building ritual and momentum.

And it's not about being religious about it because a lot of patients say to me, you know, I find it really difficult to maintain a routine with adhd and that's fine, but it's, it's not about consistency every day, it's about momentum and it's just about building in that as a semi regular habit that you can go to, that's part of your toolkit. That's just your 10 minutes, that's just for you. And it's gonna.

The more often you can get your nervous system into that calm space, even if it is only for 10 minutes, the better you're going to feel. And it's great to hear that your sleep's been improved.

Kate: 00:23:30

No, I. Yeah. And my daughter, who typically is sitting on the couch with us until about sort of half eight, nine, she also has a chamomile tiki.

So I like two little old ladies together having our chamomile tea. But she really notices how much it helps her as well.

Kate: 00:23:47

I'm just going to interrupt today's episode.

Kate: 00:23:49

Because I wanted to show share something with you.

Kate: 00:23:52

If you're raising a neurodivergent child, especially alongside navigating your own ADHD or neurodivergence, I know how layered and complex that can feel. There's often this moment where you realize supporting your child also brings up so.

Kate: 00:24:06

Much about your own experience growing up,.

Kate: 00:24:08

What was missed, what you needed, and what you're only now beginning to understand about yourself. I often say it's about healing that inner child. And that can feel both powerful and overwhelming.

And that's why I wanted to share a podcast that I've recently been listening to called Everyone Gets a Juice Box for Parents of neurodivergent children from understood.org a non profit dedicated to supporting people who learn and think differently. I've been listening to Everyone Gets a Juice Box. And what really does stand out is how honest, human and validating it is.

It moves away from this idea of perfect parenting and instead of just meets.

Kate: 00:24:44

You in the real experience in the burnout, the mum rage, the meltdowns, the.

Kate: 00:24:49

Navigating, all the different diagnoses, the schools, the friendships, but also those quieter moments of growth where you start to understand your child and yourself in a completely new way.

It's about evolution, it's thoughtful, it's sometimes funny, and full of relatable stories and practical tools that actually respect how neurodivergent families work. And more than anything, it reminds you.

Kate: 00:25:12

That you're not alone in this and that you're not getting it wrong.

Kate: 00:25:15

This is not about shame or judgment. This is just about compassionate parenting.

So to listen, search for Everyone gets a juice box in your podcast app or go onto Understood.org and you'll find more information there. That's Everyone Gets a juice box. Now let's get back to the episode.

Kate: 00:25:33

What else would you recommend? As well as Chamomile.

Ellen: 00:25:36

Yeah, so Chamomile's got some brilliant evidence behind it for for anxiety and mood with adhd.

And I looked at this specifically a range of different herbal medicines last year as part of a research project I did specifically for herbal treatment of adhd.

Another one that came out really highly, especially for improving sleep quality, was Passion Flower Pasty Flora Incarnate and it's got the most gorgeous flower. And again it's has some alkaloids in it that are GABA activating, so they help again to help put you in that parasympathetic state.

And now with this one, I should say that if you are on monoamine oxidase inhibitors, which are a specific type of antidepressant that is normally used in treatment resistant depression, they may not be the herb for you because they have a similar effect and so they can actually cause an additive effect to that medication. So it's best avoiding those if you're on that type of meds. But they support relaxation in a similar way to Cammar.

But they also have good research to suggest that they improve sleep quality as well. Passiflora, that is a lovely one because it's not strongly sedative, so it's not going to kind of knock you out.

It's going to prepare your nervous system ready for sleep. And I have to say I've been using this regularly for a few months now and I have noticed that the depth and the quality of my sleep has improved.

lly I looked at a there was a: 2023

And anxiety as well, was looked at in that study and it showed similar levels of efficacy if we're thinking about more the type of focus and alertness, because obviously we've talked a bit about feeling calm and relaxing in the evening. Another really lovely herb that, that can help us when we're at work or studying or need to be kind of switched on and focused and alert is rosemary.

And actually, the great thing about that is all you need to do is.

Kate: 00:27:37

Smell it here before a podcast. It's always on my temples, behind my ears and on my wrists. It's my little ritual before I start my podcast, because it's just.

Ellen: 00:27:47

Yeah, it's a brilliant one to have whilst you're working, for sure. And the great thing about rosemary is all you need to do is smell it.

So the fresh herb, a sprig of the fresh herb, you can pop it in a herbal tea, brew it covered, just like with the chamomile, you can have the essential oil and just smell that.

And the great thing about it is it's got a compound it called 1.8 cineole, which you don't need to really remember, but that compound has been shown in studies to increase blood flow specifically to the prefrontal cortex. And we know that in adhd, people with adhd, blood perfusion to that area is often lower on scans. And so because we've got.

With an increased blood perfusion, we've got increased oxygen delivery to the brain, we've got increased nutrient delivery and enhanced alertness that can really help with sustaining focus for longer periods of time. But it's also been shown in studies to enhance working memory and retention of information.

So it's a great one for studying for exams or if you've got a big talk coming up at work or whatever it is you do, it improves speed and accuracy of information recall as well. So it's focus and memory.

So it's really amazing if you need to overcome a bit of an afternoon slump or if you've got a big, you know, a talk, a podcast to do. Really great to inhale some rosemary.

I should say, with rosemary, if you are pregnant or if you have epilepsy, you should avoid rosemary because it's quite contraindicated with those conditions. But, yeah, brilliant. Oil for clearing brain fog, fatigue, bit of a brain brain boost.

Kate: 00:29:19

Brilliant. No, I mean, I use it all the time, but you've just made me.

Kate: 00:29:23

Think my daughter's about to start her.

Kate: 00:29:24

A levels and she typically ignores everything I say. The amount of supplements I've given her and they just still sit on her, you know, on the side of her desk.

But I might go and buy her some rosemary oil and just say, like, what's the worst that can happen? You know?

Ellen: 00:29:39

Yeah, make a little inhaler.

Kate: 00:29:41

Yeah, she's very cynical, but I'm gonna.

Ellen: 00:29:44

Try and it just smells nice.

If nothing else, you know, people may be listening to this, thinking it, you know, that it sounds, it's not evidence based but, you know, all the things I'm talking to you about are really, they've got good evidence to back them up. But if nothing else, it just smells lovely and it, even the act of smelling something nice is calming for your nervous system.

It's going to make you feel better if you like the smell.

So I, as an aromatherapist, I often say in my workshops, you know, I can tell you 10 things about this herb, but if you don't like it, it's not going to work for you.

On the other hand, I can tell you 10 things about it and if you really love it, that's going to make you feel good and put you in a better frame of mind. And it's that muscle memory thing of training your brain to associate the aroma with that calm state or that alert state state.

The more you do this, the better you're going to feel and the more quickly you can tap into that feeling that you're trying to achieve. So very fast acting because our sense of smell is the only sense that has a direct link to our brain.

And so when you inhale an essential oil, the molecules are so tiny they can go up in through our nose and into the olfactory bulb, which is kind of here at the base of the brain. And there's a lock and key mechanism that happens so the molecule kind of fits into the receptor and that's how we can detect different aromas.

But the cool thing about that is that the molecules are so small they're able to pass straight into our bloodstream. And so that's why aroma can have such an instant and powerful impact on our mood or our hormones.

It can trigger different chemical cascades within the body. So even though it seems like, oh, it's just a nice smell, no, it's actually internal medicine.

It's doing something really quickly that other medicines can't necessarily do that quickly.

Kate: 00:31:25

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of aromatherapy.

I have lots of different options by my bath that I put in and it's, I like sort of like the Seed awards, but then I also like very sort of like citrusy you know, revitalizing. I'm quite intentional because they say if I'm having a bath before I'm going out, I don't want to sort of sedate myself.

So I, like, have the most citrusy or the peppermint ones. And then if I just. If I just feel very ungrounded, I'll go sort of more woody.

And then if I just want to go to sleep, I've got, you know, lavender or chamomile or I can't remember what else.

I've also got rosemary in there and I kind of create a little tincture of how I and I 100 works, because I get in that bath and then with the state steam and the oil, I notice my mood, how it shifts, how it needs to be. So it is brilliant how it works with the brain.

Ellen: 00:32:19

Yeah, It's a lovely ritual as well. And if anybody's interested in learning a bit more, I've got a book there called the Healing Power of Scent.

Kate: 00:32:26

Yes.

Ellen: 00:32:27

And I've written that as an. It's kind of a bit of a holistic guide.

It's got a bit of neuroscience in it, bit of information on how oils are produced, and then there's a few sensory rituals and activities and recipes in there that people can use to familiarize themselves with the different plants.

And in the back, there's 16 different plant profiles, so you can go through and learn about the different essential oils, the different herbs and what they might be helpful for.

Kate: 00:32:52

Fantastic. I'll put that in the show notes. Definitely the healing power of scents. I'm going to be buying that 10%.

Ellen: 00:32:59

Off for your listeners as well.

Kate: 00:33:01

Thank you. I'll put that link in the show notes. So we've got chamomile, passion flower, rosemary. Is there another really good one?

Ellen: 00:33:09

Yeah, there are. I mean, lavender is a classic and not most people know and can grow or find lavender, either the herb or the essential oil.

And that again, it's been shown in studies to improve sleep quality and duration. So that is another one that I might suggest looking into.

And the other herb that may be less well known to people is one called bacopa, and it's an Ayurvedic herb and you can get it through a herbalist or as a supplement. But I guess with supplements you've just got to be really wary of the quality because not all supplements are created equal sort of thing.

So you have to know kind of where you're going to get them.

But that one has got really strong evidence for cognitive function, attention and Moderate evidence for supporting kind of hyperactivity, impulsivity, although it's less strong evidence on anxiety and sleep. So that one is another good cognitive function herb that you could look into.

Kate: 00:34:08

Okay, and how's that taken? Is that supplement or is it a tea?

Ellen: 00:34:13

It can be a tincture. I've never used it as a tea.

I imagine it could be available as a tea but the way I've used it is in powder form that's been compressed into capsules because it's easier to dose that way. Now would say with any of these herbs, it's not kind of you take it and then you're going to instantly notice the effects.

A lot of the time I work for three or four months with, with patients and we build up the right dose and we calibrate over time.

So I would say again, it's the thing of make sure that you're seeing herbalist if you can and get the dosage right and take it for a long time and make sure it's kind of suitable for you before. Before taking it. But that one is one that I've used it during my studies for example and found it really supportive.

And then there's another plant family you may have heard of, ginseng or Siberian ginseng, panax ginseng or American ginseng. Those are considered adaptogens and that's a bit of a buzzword at the moment.

And it essentially means a herb that has a non specific action but that helps your body adapt to stressors, whether they're physical or emotional or mental. And ginsengs particularly in perimenopause, Siberian ginseng.

So eleutherococcus and tocosis can be a really lovely herb to use because it's that kind of grounding support and it can help level out emotional dysregulation. And one of my, the herbalists that I go to, she says it keeps well people well. So it preventative herb.

Kate: 00:35:47

Okay.

Ellen: 00:35:47

And supportive herb that, that might form the basis of, you know, quite a lot of mixes that I put together for my patients. Yeah. So brilliant. Again, all of them might not be suitable for everyone but those are the ones I would look into.

And there's a great website that I'm a contributor for and it's called Herbal Reality. It's a free educational resource.

So if people want to go and read more about herbal medicines and make sure that it's evidence based on, that's a great place to go because all the articles are written by trained health professionals and medical herbalists so it's really evidence based. They've got quite rigorous editing there. So I would recommend that as a place to learn more for free.

Kate: 00:36:27

Thank you so much. Last question. What do you think about saffron?

Ellen: 00:36:32

Saffron has got a bit of a mixed bag of evidence. So the research that I did, it didn't come up as one of the top herbs and I know that there are quite a lot of papers out there about saffron.

It's not one that I currently use mainly because it's quite expensive and there are other herbs that do just as good a job I would say and that are a lot more accessible. So I'm not the jury's out on that one.

Kate: 00:37:00

Yeah, interesting. No, because I sort of, I think.

Kate: 00:37:02

It's great but sometimes because I take.

Kate: 00:37:04

It with lots of other things like you say if it's sort of evidence based. But I'm going to go on the herbal reality. Is it.com or.co.uk.com okay, I'll make sure that's also in the notes.

Ellen: 00:37:17

Yeah. The other one I would mention just quickly is turmeric.

Because turmeric has compounds in it that can pass the blood brain barrier and because it's so strongly anti inflammatory and inflammation plays a big role in kind of oxygen oxidative damage to the cells. That can be a really nice one to look into. It's also really nourishing for the gut and can help regulate the digestive system as well.

So that would be one I would also look into.

And I know some people do find saffron and not to to dismiss it completely because there is evidence to suggest that it is supportive but the quality is quite variable of that evidence I would say that's all.

Kate: 00:37:56

Okay, brilliant. Well, if someone's listening and they want to get in touch with you, they want to work with you. Do you any work, do you work.

Kate: 00:38:03

Online or do you work?

Ellen: 00:38:05

So I offer online and in person appointments. So I'm based down in the Southwest in Bristol, but I do offer online sessions as well and all the herbs are posted so it's quite accessible.

If you don't live in the Southwest, I do offer a 15 minute free discovery call. So if they go on my website, which is amberluna.co.uk they can book a free discovery call. And I tend to work in four months blocks.

So to give the herbs a really good chance to get going and to sort of make the lifestyle changes that we need to make, we work in a four month block typically and then we Review and see if that person then wants to move to a more of an ad hoc way of working or they just want to have their herbs prescriptions renewed. It really depends on the person. Sometimes they need a bit longer. So it's quite flexible, really.

Kate: 00:38:50

Brilliant. And do you work with kids as well?

Ellen: 00:38:52

I do, yeah. I can work with children, adults, elderly people, all stages of life. Children.

We tend to dose and prescribe slightly differently because there's some herbs that are more suitable for children or different ways of taking the herbs.

Kate: 00:39:07

But yes, fantastic. Oh well, thank you so much.

Been so interesting, Very, very helpful and just to have those sort of like confirmation on the more accessible herbs and then obviously I know, you know, it's hard if it's like becomes more of a personal consultation if we start asking for all the other ones.

But I think you've given everyone a nice little introduction to medical herbalism and aromatherapy, especially when we are also taking other medications and we just kind of want something a bit more holistic to kind of like give us that extra, that extra boost.

Ellen: 00:39:42

Yeah.

And I think one thing we haven't talked about, which is important to say that with the methylphenidate or non stimulant ADHD medications there are often a whole list of side effects. I mean I've, I've done talks before, I've filled up a whole slide just with the side effects of one medication.

And herbal medicine can really come into its own on that front as well, you know, bringing down some of those unwanted side effects supporting the sleep.

If we're finding that the stimulant medication is, you know, disrupting our sleep, for example, or causing extra anxiety, herbal medicine can come in and just address those side effects so that then you can feel really well with your medication and your herbal medicines and you've got the kind of multifactorial toolkit to support.

Kate: 00:40:22

You think that's a huge thing because so many people don't like the side effects so much that they don't take, carry on taking the medication that potentially is helping them in a window of time. But the side effects outweigh, outweigh the situation. So that's really, really good to know.

I mean that was one of the reasons why I don't take medication very often is because, because I don't like the feeling the two, two or three hours afterwards. And that's quite considerable chunk of, of our day to not feel great. So that's really, really good to know. Thank you so much.

I'm going to put there's a lot of great resources that all going to go in the show notes, so I'm going to make sure that people know where to find you. I look forward to speaking again. Thank you so much for your time today.

Ellen: 00:41:07

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity and hopefully this has been helpful for someone out there.

Kate: 00:41:13

It very much has.

Kate: 00:41:17

Thank you for being here and listening to today's episode.

I just want to remind you that if you are looking for more support on your ADHD journey, there are so many resources waiting for you over@adhd womenswellbeing.co.uk so inside the ADHD Women's well Being Workshop library, you'll find practical and compassionate guidance on topics such as nervous system regulation, rejection, sensitive dysphoria, perfectionism, emotional regulation, hormones, parenting and so much more. All designed specifically for late diagnosed neurodivergent women.

You can also explore my new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, which was published by dk, which is also available in ebook and audiobook, which is packed full of text tools to help you feel calmer, more regulated and more like yourself. And if you do crave a bit more deeper connection and ongoing support, come and join us inside the More Yourself Community.

It's a gentle space for learning, reflection and connection with other neurodivergent women.

And you'll also find the recordings from our first ever ADHD Women's Wellbeing Live event, which brought together incredible speakers and a room full of inspiring women for a truly special day.

We have recorded it all for you and it's there to buy, so whether you're just starting your journey or looking to go deeper, there's something there for every stage. Just head to ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk to explore everything. And as always, thank you so much for being here and for being part of this community.

Ellen: 00:42:55

Sa.