Building Bridges in ADHD Partnerships: Tips for Better Connection and Relationships with Lisa Rabinowitz
In this week’s episode of The ADHD Women’s Wellbeing Podcast, I’m joined by couples counsellor and author Lisa Rabinowitz to discuss what really happens when ADHD shows up in a relationship and how to evolve and grow through it together.
Whether you have ADHD, your partner does, or you’re both neurodivergent, this conversation offers real-life tools and insights to help you feel more connected, understood, and supported.
Lisa, author of Why Won’t You Stop Interrupting Me?, shares how ADHD can create challenges with communication, emotional regulation, and reactivity, and how couples can move from blame to teamwork.
What You’ll Learn:
✨ Why ADHD can make communication harder and how to reduce misinterpretation and reactivity
✨ How understanding both partners’ neurodivergence creates more compassion and connection
✨ What a “talk nook” is, and why creating space for safe conversations can transform your relationship
✨ How to use tools like timers, summaries, fidget toys, ChatGPT, and bullet points to support better discussions
✨ Why self-awareness and emotional responsibility matter for both partners
✨ How to move from blame to teamwork, and what it means to approach your relationship like a “3-legged race”
✨ The role of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) in relationships and how to navigate needs for independence
✨ Why having a shared goal and taking small steps forward together builds empowerment and trust
✨ How to start using your ADHD diagnosis as a tool for deeper understanding
✨ Encouraging, science-backed advice from Lisa’s work with couples navigating ADHD challenges
Timestamps:
🕒 00:59 – Understanding Neurodivergence in Relationships
🕒 14:51 – The Importance of Self-Responsibility in Relationships
🕒 17:32 – Navigating Neurodivergence in Relationships
🕒 23:36 – Understanding Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA)
🕒 30:03 – Exploring Different Communication Styles
You’ll walk away with encouragement, clarity, and small steps that make a big difference, whether you’re navigating frustration, wanting to reconnect, or just looking to understand each other better.
To find out more about Lisa Rabinowitz and the work she does check out her website, counselorforcouples.com or connect with her on Instagram (@rabinowitzcounseling).
You can find out more about her book, Why Won't You Stop Interrupting Me? here
Links and Resources:
⭐ Boosting your Self-Belief and Self-Trust after a late-in-life ADHD diagnosis is available to buy now on-demand - Click here to purchase.
⭐ Book on to the next ADHD Wellbeing Workshop all about Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria - Click here to book.
⭐ If you love the podcast but want more ADHD support, get a sneak peek of my brand new book, The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit and pre-order it here!
⭐ Launching September! Tired of ADHD support that doesn’t get you? My new compassionate, community-first membership ditches the overwhelm by providing support aligned with YOU! Join the waitlist now for an exclusive founding member offer!
Find all of Kate's popular online workshops and free resources here
Follow the podcast on Instagram
Kate Moryoussef is a women's ADHD lifestyle and wellbeing coach and EFT practitioner who helps overwhelmed and unfulfilled newly diagnosed ADHD women find more calm, balance, hope, health, compassion, creativity and clarity.
Transcript
Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.
Speaker A:After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.
Speaker A:In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings, and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.
Speaker A:Here's today's episode.
Speaker A:I'm here today trying to bring you the most up to date practical, lifestyle wellbeing, holistic tools to help you on your ADHD journey.
Speaker A:And this may be this new chapter in your life of understanding how neurodivergence impacts and has impacted your life and your family.
Speaker A:And today I'm really looking forward to having this conversation.
Speaker A:I've got Lisa Rabinowitz here now.
Speaker A:Lisa is a couples counselor and she's written a book which is called why won't you stop Interrupting me?
Speaker A:Which I think clearly says everything what it's about.
Speaker A:It provides simple solutions for ADHD couples and she discusses things around communication challenges in ADHD relationships, but also celebrating the differences and finding strengths in ADHD affected partnerships and how these narratives impact our relationships.
Speaker A:So I'll tell you a little bit about Lisa before we get started.
Speaker A:She is a certified Gottman and Pact couples therapist, which I love hearing about Gottman Relationship Therapy and has over 30 years of experience with ADHD communication and relationships.
Speaker A:And her book, why won't you stop interrupting Me?
Speaker A:Provides these tools for couples navigating ADHD to improve connection and communication.
Speaker A:We all need this.
Speaker A:And she also is a professional speaker and delivers presentations on effective communication, work, life balance and managing stress and conflict.
Speaker A:And she also empowers teams and leaders with practical tools to enhance productivity, foster collaboration and create balanced, healthier workplaces.
Speaker A:So I mean, it all transcends, doesn't it, with workplaces, relationships, families, just to have these communication tools is, is so important.
Speaker A:So, Lisa, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Kate.
Speaker B:I really appreciate you having me here today.
Speaker A:It's wonderful to have you here to have this conversation because there's lots going on.
Speaker A:So tell me, Lisa, obviously you've worked with ADHD and couples for a long time.
Speaker A:We know, you know, if we're on the ground with ADHD and we our ADHD or we Live with an ADHD partner, have been parented by someone who's got ADHD or neurodivergent.
Speaker A:We know it has a deep impact across the board.
Speaker A:I guess.
Speaker A:What have you seen?
Speaker A:30 years of experience.
Speaker A:What are those sort of common denominators, the things that happen, the threads that you see that impact people that perhaps can be changed if we have more awareness and understanding and compassion.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So it cuts across so many different dimensions of relationships, communication.
Speaker B:And it can be as simple as just, you know, every couple has misunderstandings.
Speaker B:But if I'm getting distracted, right.
Speaker B:If I can't focus, if I'm feeling like up here is sounds perfect, and then when it comes out, it sounds like just a big scrambled mess, it's going to create problems in our communication.
Speaker B:So there's that one area.
Speaker B:I think one of the biggest challenges is that one person can have ADHD and have these challenges, and another person can also have ADHD in the family and look totally different.
Speaker B:And we can't compare and be like, you know, you're worse than me, better than me.
Speaker B:It's just here we are showing up, and these are our strengths and these are our challenges, and we have to just work with that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It seems that as we as adults, you're being late in life, diagnosed, we're starting to recognize that, you know, if we're still with that partner and we've been attracted to them, that we're very often neurodivergent in different ways.
Speaker A:And I've seen a pattern of someone with ADHD obviously, being attracted maybe to someone with autism.
Speaker A:And I'm not.
Speaker A:I'm going to generalize hugely here of perhaps the autistic person being a bit more routine, scheduled, ordered, tidy.
Speaker A:Again, generalizing.
Speaker A:Timing is everything.
Speaker A:And then they.
Speaker A:There's an ADHD person who's a bit more disorganized, scattered, flamboyant, you know, all of these different things.
Speaker A:And they kind of.
Speaker A:If it works well, they mesh together and they bring out the strengths and help each other with the scaffolding for each one.
Speaker A:But if it doesn't work and the communication styles keep butting heads, we can see how difficult that can be.
Speaker A:Do you see that as well in your therapy?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:And I don't think people are talking about it as much as we really need to.
Speaker B:When I came into the field, it was, this person is the ADHD person and this is the non ADHD person.
Speaker B:And sometimes it is really hard because the person who's been the non ADHD person thinks they are non adhd, but I see a lot of neurodivergence and they haven't been diagnosed and they're the.
Speaker B:They feel like I'm the organized one.
Speaker B:I'm the one that has the routine just like you described.
Speaker B:But frequently.
Speaker B:And again, like you said, generally it could be on the spectrum, just showing up in a different way.
Speaker B:They are attracting each other.
Speaker B:And I would say very rarely do I actually see a truly non ADHD partner with a ADHD partner.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I'm not seeing that.
Speaker A:That's so interesting.
Speaker A:I'm looking around as well and I'm, you know, again, it's qualitative research as opposed to.
Speaker A:But for the many clients I've had, my family, myself included in my relationship, it's across the board that it's almost this sort of magnetic desire to.
Speaker A:Yes, obviously the physicality.
Speaker A:And then once you get past, you know, the physical attraction, there's the, well, that person's really good at waking up in the morning and I'm not so good.
Speaker A:So we sort of help each other, but that person is not so sociable, but they need someone else to bring them out of their shell a little bit.
Speaker A:And we kind of complement and work with each other.
Speaker A:But I wonder if you agree that as life gets harder, children involved, neurodivergent, children involved, stressors, life, life, everything.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden that those communication styles is a breakdown and.
Speaker A:Or maybe like you say, that other person isn't willing to recognize their own neurodivergence and there's sort of like a bit of blame going on of like, I'm the normal one and you need to sort your shit out, basically.
Speaker A:And it's kind of like the neurotypical in inverted commas is saying, these are all your issues and you need to sort that.
Speaker A:What do you do in that situation?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So that happens frequently.
Speaker B:And what I try to point to is if we put blame on one person, they're not going to stay in therapy.
Speaker B:They're not.
Speaker B:And I have people coming to me all the time with other therapists.
Speaker B:You know, I was the one to blame.
Speaker B:I was the one that was bad.
Speaker B:I didn't do this.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I should have done that more.
Speaker B:I'm not good enough.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:What's called level the playing field.
Speaker B:You have your challenges and you have your challenges.
Speaker B:And that's why in the book, I Specifically, I have 15 challenges for the ADHD partner.
Speaker B:And I really wanted, I have to tell you, to come up with 15 for the non.
Speaker B:I called it non ADHD partner.
Speaker B:I only came up with 8.
Speaker B:But again, in any couple you can see a mix.
Speaker B:You might find yourself over here, you might find yourself over here, but usually there is some differences.
Speaker B:So you each have your challenges and that's how I look at it.
Speaker B:I don't want to do the finger pointing.
Speaker B:That's not going to be helpful for anybody.
Speaker B:So it's, we have a communication challenge.
Speaker B:We are two person system.
Speaker B:The two of us are responsible.
Speaker B:How are we going to work out the situation?
Speaker B:So when a lot of tools come into play and it feels very different, they'll frequently tell me like this feels very different because when it's the blame game, it's not comfortable, it doesn't feel fair, it doesn't feel balanced.
Speaker B:I'm going to say though, if somebody really has a true deficit in emotional regulation or really the ADHD has not been dealt with or it could be addiction.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It could be an addiction that's not dealt with or trauma that wasn't dealt with.
Speaker B:We want people to get coaching, individual therapy because otherwise we're not going to be able to show up in therapy and effectively work together as a couple.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So yeah, I think it's so important that is that we all have to take self responsibility.
Speaker A:And I say this, you know, with love to so many of my clients and my community that the ADHD's been there forever and because we didn't know what it was then, it's been really hard to, you know, I'm not going to say fix it but like work with it and help ourselves.
Speaker A:But now we have this awareness and we, you know, we've got this opportunity to educate ourselves.
Speaker A:We also have to take self responsibility to work on our reactivity, our emotional regulation, our stress response, choosing different things, putting boundaries in place, all these things, like no one can do that for us and we have to step up to the mark.
Speaker A:And sometimes I sound a bit hard when I said we need to get out this victim mentality of like life has been hard but now that we have an understanding, we have a diagnosis and I know that we're only at the very beginning stages of understanding neurodivergence.
Speaker A:I really do think we are like, we can start, you know, listening to the podcasts, getting the coaching, reading the books, actively making an effort.
Speaker A:And I guess I'd love to give my listeners hope of.
Speaker A:Have you had couples that have come in and you think, oh my God, these guys are like, this is the, the crux point and you've seen things turn around because they've understood how to relearn communication skills.
Speaker B:Oh, 100% every day, all day.
Speaker B:So I have many people who are, I call it on the cliff.
Speaker B:Like we're about to go off the cliff and we're in deep trouble or we are off the cliff and how are we going to pull it back, get away from the cliff.
Speaker B:And frequently it's because they don't know how to work together.
Speaker B:Like in the beginning it was easy.
Speaker B:I love your spontaneity.
Speaker B:That's so much fun.
Speaker B:Day to day spontaneity.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:Like we have a routine.
Speaker B:We have to.
Speaker B:8 o'clock.
Speaker B:Like let's get going.
Speaker B:No, we can't stay in bed till 10.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so these things that were so much fun that we loved now eventually become.
Speaker B:I don't like and maybe I really, really don't like.
Speaker B:And they're becoming a problem.
Speaker B:It's really nice to be creative right now.
Speaker B:We have to do this right and stay in the lane and that creativity's better go out the window because that's just not how we're doing this now.
Speaker B:What do we do?
Speaker B:And so it's first, like you said, we need understanding and we need a diagnosis of if we haven't had one, then we need true understanding.
Speaker B:Like what does it mean for me?
Speaker B:Because what I'm going to look like is different than anybody else, then to bring that, I mean, both people need to have that awareness of if one person happens to be the one struggling with adhd, what does that mean?
Speaker B:How is it impacting?
Speaker B:Again, not blaming, but we need to understand and we need awareness and then we can say now what?
Speaker B:It's not a divorce sentence.
Speaker B:It is a learning opportunity.
Speaker B:We're going to do something different.
Speaker B:And when we slow down, which is sometimes really hard, then we can practice.
Speaker B:What are we going to do next time?
Speaker B:Because it's going to happen again that we didn't get up at 8 o'clock when we said we were supposed to or we didn't pay the bill that we said we were going to pay.
Speaker B:Like there's certain things that we can predict and now we can start planning and preparing, working together as a team.
Speaker B:A team and not against each other.
Speaker B:It's a very different feel.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's really, that's really good to hear.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm just thinking when you're talking, you know, so many of us have had family trauma, there's been divorce, marriage breakdowns, chaos, dysfunction due to undiagnosed adhd.
Speaker A:And that can impact families.
Speaker A:We're looking at addiction, we're looking at financial, you know, array so many different things here.
Speaker A:And I think now that we have awareness, we collectively, and I think I'm going to speak on behalf of many of my community.
Speaker A:We want to break cycles and we look back at the family dysfunction and we see a lot of heartbreak and difficulty and hardship and people not really enjoying lives, not thriving.
Speaker A:And they kind of think, I don't want to be like that.
Speaker A:I want my kids to grow up in calm, regulated households with more fun and happiness and laughter.
Speaker A:And I think what you're saying is that it is possible, but we have to recognize actually what are those difficulties?
Speaker A:And I wonder, is it okay for the partner to be a scaffolding for the person who's got ADHD or neurodivergent?
Speaker A:Like, what point does that partner have to sort of say, you know what, I have to pull away from being the scaffolding and you have to be more empowered here.
Speaker B:I think it goes back to what we both mentioned earlier, which is self responsibility.
Speaker B:First, we need everyone to be showing up.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:It's okay if you have trauma in your history, addiction in your history, ADHD in your history, all of that in your history, whatever it is.
Speaker B:But let's get the help we need.
Speaker B:And as we're getting the help we need, right, we're going to get the support.
Speaker B:We need a support.
Speaker B:We need a support system, a community.
Speaker B:I mean, this your information to be able to get out to people, like, I'm not alone.
Speaker B:Because so often people feel like I'm the only one suffering.
Speaker B:Nobody else gets this.
Speaker B:No one else is going through this.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:You're providing this place where people are like, oh my gosh, that's exactly what's happening in my house.
Speaker B:So it's so reassuring.
Speaker B:And so what we're going to do is make sure everybody has what they need to show up.
Speaker B:And again, that's not always going to be perfect.
Speaker B:We are not looking for perfect.
Speaker B:Perfect is in the movies, that doesn't really exist.
Speaker B:So we're going to need to see where we are and then work from there.
Speaker B:What's one small, small step?
Speaker B:What's one small thing?
Speaker B:And unfortunately, a lot of times we have been doing the scaffolding for 10 years.
Speaker B:So thinking that it's going to end today is not realistic.
Speaker B:And so that's.
Speaker B:You're going to feel like a failure, your partner's going to feel like a failure.
Speaker B:If you're like, I'm Done.
Speaker B:I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker B:I know, but you've been doing it for 10 years.
Speaker B:So now how do we start rolling it back, start shifting slowly.
Speaker B:But we have a goal in mind.
Speaker B:We're trying to get to X place and we're going to take one step together and one step together.
Speaker B:We are in a three legged race.
Speaker B:We are only getting to that finish line together and so we.
Speaker B:My partner can't fall.
Speaker B:My partner falls.
Speaker B:I'm not dragging them there going, I made it to the finish line, that's great.
Speaker B:But your partner's way back there.
Speaker B:So what are we going to do to take one step forward, forward today, this week.
Speaker B:And that's why I like to try to really break it down into small pieces.
Speaker B:Small pieces.
Speaker B:What's one thing that we can start doing?
Speaker B:And a lot of times it's about empowering people.
Speaker B:When people feel empowered like I can do this, then they're willing to take the next step and it really snowballs forward with gentle loving encouragement and empowerment.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that you forgot that.
Speaker B:And you didn't do that.
Speaker B:That's not gonna do it.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not gonna do it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's so nice to hear.
Speaker A:I like that analogy of the three legged race because like you say if one goes down, you know that we all go down type thing.
Speaker A:So it's just, it's that new dance, I guess it's learning a new dance, isn't it?
Speaker A:Or how to do life.
Speaker A:How can the non ADHD partner in whatever capacity they are in a different spectrum or neurotypical, meet in the middle with the ADHD traits which we know aren't going anywhere, like it's part of us.
Speaker A:And the ADHD traits can be so amazing.
Speaker A:Like you say you talk about strengths.
Speaker A:How do we then work with the strengths and start celebrating them?
Speaker B:So I slow down and ask couples every day, let's focus on a strength each day.
Speaker B:Going to sit down and actually I, I, we're probably going to talk about this at the end but I, I'll just mention it now.
Speaker B:There's a free giveaway and in that free giveaway tells you different exercises to do together.
Speaker B:And one of them is setting up a place together where you're going to sit and talk.
Speaker B:And I give a lot more instructions than that, but that is very fun.
Speaker B:Foundational in my book that you need to have a space, this is your space.
Speaker B:And if you need fidget toys, if you need pillows, you know, all sorts of scented things, whatever you like, I want you to make up a space.
Speaker B:This is your conversation space, your connection space.
Speaker B:I call it the nook.
Speaker B:You can call it whatever you want.
Speaker B:It's not supposed to be the bed.
Speaker B:You'll see that in the book.
Speaker B:The bed is a place that other things happen.
Speaker B:This is a place where we are going to talk.
Speaker B:And I know in some people's homes, it's not a perfect place.
Speaker B:In some people's homes, they do.
Speaker B:They have, you know, like, oh, we don't really use this room so much, or we don't use this couch very often.
Speaker B:Let's sit over here, whatever it is.
Speaker B:And you're gonna sit down.
Speaker B:And it takes one minute, trust me.
Speaker B:We spend lots of time talking about the negatives.
Speaker B:We can spend one minute and say something and do something positive.
Speaker B:And what does that look for every.
Speaker B:Look like for every couple?
Speaker B:People can do all sorts of different things, but focus on the positive.
Speaker B:That is what we're gonna do.
Speaker B:Again, it's such a small step, but when we start seeing the positive, we see it over here and over here and over here.
Speaker B:And when we see the negative, we see it over here and over here and over here and over here, too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So our choice, it's rewiring our neural pathways, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's literally neuroplasticity for, you know, helping our relationships.
Speaker A:Because I do think with our neurodivergent brains, we do have more of a negativity bias.
Speaker A:Dr.
Speaker A:Halliwell talks about the DMN, the default mode network in our brain that is more prone to negative thinking and rumination and sort of like spiral of thinking where we just kind of go down this dark hole.
Speaker A:And all of a sudden we're like, oh, my God, my partner's awful.
Speaker A:We're gonna get divorced.
Speaker A:And like you say, if we can do those small moments where we really kind of like appreciating, we've got this gratitude for, you know, all the stuff that they do do and all the amazing things.
Speaker A:Slowly we stop focusing on, you know, it's kind of like moving the magnifying glasses and it.
Speaker A:Or moving the flashlight over to a different part of them.
Speaker A:And I have to say, you know, it, for me, I think I.
Speaker A:What I am, I can be hypercritical.
Speaker A:And my husband knows this.
Speaker A:And I actively try hard to stop being critical and notice.
Speaker A:And he's the most incredible husband.
Speaker A:We've been married for nearly 21 years, and my diagnosis of ADHD has been a massive invitation to evolving our relationship.
Speaker A:But also, what he's never noticed And I think he'll be fine with me saying this, is that he's definitely neurodivergent himself.
Speaker A:Like he openly says this.
Speaker A:And as our kids have had diagnoses, which they've all had, we've got four kids.
Speaker A:And it all shows that very differently, to the point where it's like, this is not all from me.
Speaker A:This is, there's, there's a real mix of our neurodivergence going on and he now sees it in different kids of ours.
Speaker A:And he says, oh my God, that's how I was as a kid.
Speaker A:Like that's, he's not that bothered about getting the official diagnosis.
Speaker A:He's kind of, he kind of knows how he's tackled it through life and how he does tackle it and how he looks after himself.
Speaker A:He's not as much of a seeker as I am.
Speaker A:And what has helped our relationship, and I'm happy to share, is that it was very much at the beginning, me doing all the legwork of understanding myself, getting help myself, therapy, coaching, medication, hormone replacement, all of that.
Speaker A:Then with our children, I was the one that was actively going with the diagnoses, meeting the doctors, it was so hard.
Speaker A:I was like battling it myself, going through it, doing it with my kids.
Speaker A:And it took him much longer to come on board and be open minded and accept it and see it.
Speaker A:And I guess as he's seen the podcast evolve, my work evolved.
Speaker A:Now I've got a book coming out.
Speaker A:It's almost like it's taken like five or six years for the penny to drop.
Speaker A:But he is so much more open minded now.
Speaker A:I'm still teaching him, but I think what I'm trying to say is this, this reflection mirrors out into a lot of couples where there's one of the parents doing the legwork, supporting the children through their neurodivergence, getting all the help, and they've got another partner who is maybe a bit more closed minded, not open or pushes back.
Speaker A:And that's really hard as well, isn't it?
Speaker B:Very, very hard.
Speaker B:And you know, I have to say that women seem to have a tendency to be the seekers that I'm biased or anything, but I do see that a little bit more.
Speaker B:Not that I did a study on it, but I do see that women seem to be the ones that are learning, growing, wanting to read a book, give me a video, tell me as much as you know, and then wanting to share with the kids and sort of like the husband sort of like trying to maybe catch up, maybe not interested, maybe like, you know, because if there is some kind of neurodivergence, you know, we might have rejection sensitivity, the RSD going on.
Speaker B:Dysphoria.
Speaker B:Rejection sensitivity, dysphoria going on.
Speaker B:Is it.
Speaker B:Do we have the P.
Speaker B:Pda, the pathological demand avoidance, which I actually can't stand that word.
Speaker A:But how would you describe that then?
Speaker A:Because I also don't like it as well, but I see it a lot.
Speaker A:Like, what.
Speaker A:What other way would you describe PDA in relationships?
Speaker A:Because I actually think that's something we need to talk about more.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just use the word resistance, avoiding.
Speaker B:Not that always there was someone resisting and avoiding has pda and PDA does not stand.
Speaker B:Because I've had people say that public display of affection.
Speaker B:No, that's not what it stands for.
Speaker B:But it is pathological demand avoidance.
Speaker B:Again, I hate that terminology.
Speaker B:It just sounds so yuck.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, it kind of shows that that resistance isn't it.
Speaker A:It's like.
Speaker A:Well, I see it as this sense of autonomy that we like to have.
Speaker A:Like, we don't like to be told what to do, and we don't like authority.
Speaker A:And if someone tells us what to do, it'll be like, no, I'm going to push back because it's going to be my way.
Speaker A:And it has to be that autonomy, which is great when you're independent and running a business and you need that.
Speaker A:But, oh, my God, it's hard to.
Speaker A:In a relationship.
Speaker A:And it was a child, as a parent parenting a child with it.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So you have that strength, right?
Speaker B:Like to run a business.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:And you can overcome so many things.
Speaker B:But when you're in a relationship and you ask your partner, can you do this?
Speaker B:And go, no.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So now what do we do?
Speaker B:And then we feel stuck, and there's this feeling like a tug of war.
Speaker B:And I always tell people, tug of war, let go.
Speaker B:And then we got to figure out another way.
Speaker B:But I just.
Speaker B:I want to finish our idea on, like, what about if one partner's needing sort of to be pulled.
Speaker B:I tell people, don't diagnose.
Speaker B:You know, people have traits they don't have to necessarily have a diagnosis.
Speaker B:And I know people feel uncomfortable with labels.
Speaker B:And certainly, again, I'm talking in general, and.
Speaker B:And this is stereotypical, but sometimes men feel like it's a weakness.
Speaker B:Something's wrong with me.
Speaker B:I don't want anybody to know this.
Speaker B:It's, you know, there's a lot of stigma around it.
Speaker B:And I've had people say, well, I was diagnosed when I was 5, 8, 10, you know, you know, whatever age with ADHD, but I'm 50, I don't have that anymore.
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, there is a small percentage of population that it does actually disappear or decrease, which that's what the findings are.
Speaker B:I don't necessarily see that in my practice.
Speaker B:Maybe you learn to cope with it better, but I don't notice that it just disappears.
Speaker B:But anyhow, that being said, evolves, doesn't it?
Speaker A:And manifests differently.
Speaker B:And it manifests differently.
Speaker B:And it's just like, you know what, let's just work.
Speaker B:We got to work together.
Speaker B:Whatever's, whatever is showing up.
Speaker B:Here we are now how are we going to figure this out?
Speaker B:And that's the most important thing.
Speaker B:So what are we going to do about it?
Speaker B:If we don't want to call it pda, let's just call it, you know, right now there's a tug of war.
Speaker B:Right now it feels like, you know, we're not seeing eye to eye.
Speaker B:How can we again take it out of something's wrong with one person or the other?
Speaker B:And here's our problem.
Speaker B:What are we going to do, right?
Speaker B:Every time I say, can you do this?
Speaker B:You say no, that doesn't feel good to me.
Speaker B:It probably doesn't feel good to you.
Speaker B:So now what are we going to do?
Speaker B:How are we going to work differently together and be more of a team, right?
Speaker B:And so, you know, we can brainstorm of like every time I ask you something, you'll say, let me think about it.
Speaker B:And then, you know, that distance sometimes then people cannot do that knee jerk reaction of no, they'll think about it, one minute, five minutes, whatever.
Speaker B:We'll set a time, how long that's going to be, then we're going to come back and answer.
Speaker B:And usually when we come back and answer, it's going to be a little bit different than that.
Speaker B:No, maybe I'll tell you before, like, hey, I want you to know in five minutes I'm going to come and ask you a question.
Speaker B:So can you, you know, sort of prepare yourself, right?
Speaker B:And that person knows, because we've talked about it already, that it's not going to be, no, it's going to be like, hang on, my partner's asking for help or my partner needs something, how can I join them?
Speaker B:How can I help them?
Speaker B:Feels really different.
Speaker B:And again, I can't say that one or one or both will help.
Speaker B:But we're going to again brainstorm with, here's the problem, what are we going to do?
Speaker B:And we'll give it a try, you know, we'll try it once or twice and if it doesn't work, okay, back to the drawing board.
Speaker B:Now what are we going to do?
Speaker B:And that's what happens.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I think what you're explaining is like, it's really simple, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's just being mindful about it and conscious about the way we communicate and so many of us, myself included, you just kind of like everything's reactive.
Speaker A:Everything's reactive.
Speaker A:And you're not actually consciously deciding like how do we want to communicate with each other.
Speaker A:And it can feel a bit contrived, I guess, can't it?
Speaker A:At the beginning when especially if you've been married for a long time, you've been, you know, with a partner and you kind of think this is really weird to say we're going to talk about some something in an hour.
Speaker A:Because we're all, we've got such busy lives, you know, so many of us are juggling so much and to squeeze in even a five minute conversation.
Speaker A:You know, my husband and I, we went out for dinner last week and we probably hadn't had any proper alone time apart from watching TV together for weeks and weeks and weeks.
Speaker A:And we did it and we, every time we do it kind of good.
Speaker A:That was so nice.
Speaker A:Like we so needed that.
Speaker A:But life just kind of, you know, just takes over and.
Speaker A:But to be aware of that or like you say, to have that nook.
Speaker A:Would you say that if you kind of feel a bit uncomfortable just of sitting and talking, you know, eye contact directly, going for a walk is quite a nice thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, some couples don't like sitting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I don't want one person standing and one person sitting.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So yeah, a walk for some people it's great and other people it's not great.
Speaker B:So I will tell you, do not though try walking, not walking.
Speaker B:Sorry?
Speaker B:Driving in a car and having these kinds of conversations.
Speaker B:What we know is a person who's driving is a resource for driving.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Not having a conversation and certainly I hope they don't do this and look at the partner.
Speaker B:Now when you're walking, you can usually walk and look at your partner.
Speaker B:So it is very likely that you're going to get into an argument in the car.
Speaker B:So don't want to set you up for failure, wanted to set you up for success.
Speaker B:So yeah, if walking works great.
Speaker A:What would you say if you have a couple who again, neurodivergent different styles.
Speaker A:And you've got one that is very wordy and that waffles and talks and says and like has a lot to say.
Speaker A:And then you've got another partner that needs concise quick say it's like an elevator pitch and they can't, they don't want to sit and listen and you can't get your words out and all your emotions out in a three second, you know, kind of, kind of explanation.
Speaker A:How, how do you blend those communication styles?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's in the book.
Speaker B:I don't remember what number, maybe nine or something.
Speaker B:But what we're going to do again, this is a conversation.
Speaker B:Okay, we have a problem, right?
Speaker B:You like talking a lot.
Speaker B:I don't like talking a lot.
Speaker B:So what are we going to do?
Speaker B:So we put it out here and go, okay, let's brainstorm and problem solve.
Speaker B:Let's just put out a couple ideas.
Speaker B:Number one, maybe we're going to use a timer.
Speaker B:You've got two minutes, five minutes.
Speaker B:I know that in two or five minutes, whatever we set that timer for, it's going to end.
Speaker B:And so that helps the other partner.
Speaker B:It doesn't have three seconds.
Speaker B:They know they have two to five minutes to talk.
Speaker B:This partner knows in two to five minutes it's ending.
Speaker B:You know, I can sort of like hang in.
Speaker B:Maybe I need some putty or something or coloring something to do while I'm waiting.
Speaker B:I am supposed to be listening though and paying attention.
Speaker B:So let's just make sure we're not just like going, okay, 10, nine, eight, seven, like, are you done yet?
Speaker B:That can sometimes help.
Speaker B:Sometimes.
Speaker B:If we don't want to set a timer, maybe we again, we'd have to work it out with a couple.
Speaker B:But the one who's speaking a lot, they, the other one might say, hey, you know, this is what we're going to do.
Speaker B:I'm going to say when I sort of have enough, I can't like take anymore.
Speaker B:I'll say hang on.
Speaker B:And the hang on tells you like, take a breath and maybe I'll summarize.
Speaker B:So what I heard you say was bump, bump, bum, bum, bum.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, I can continue, right?
Speaker B:This person has a decision or, you know, decision point of I can continue.
Speaker B:You can talk some more.
Speaker B:Or if I can't, then, okay, now it's my turn.
Speaker B:Because, you know, one of the challenges is sometimes one person talks and the other person doesn't have a chance.
Speaker B:So we want this person to also talk.
Speaker B:We're going to have to do some negotiations.
Speaker B:It's not going to be perfect.
Speaker B:And one of the things is, I practice it in my office.
Speaker B:I want you to practice.
Speaker B:Let's try this.
Speaker B:If it doesn't go well, let's try something different.
Speaker B:The person who has a lot to say might not want to be stopped.
Speaker B:But again, three legged race.
Speaker B:If I talk for half an hour, my partner fell about 25 minutes ago.
Speaker B:You just keep talking.
Speaker B:That's not good, right?
Speaker B:You're not, you are not going to be heard.
Speaker B:Usually that person that's talking wants to be heard and listen to.
Speaker B:They're not going to be able to.
Speaker B:So when they start understanding that, yes, share, but you got to keep your partner with you, then they're more likely like, oh, if I stop and take a breath and they get a chance, they'll be able to hear me better and listen to me and validate me.
Speaker B:Okay, I'm willing to do that.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's not usually what they think is going to happen.
Speaker B:They think like, if I talk for a half an hour, you'll understand me better.
Speaker B:No, I stopped about 25 minutes ago.
Speaker A:Yeah, I understand that one very much.
Speaker A:I've got a husband, bless him, who, unless I say what I need to say, in about 90 seconds, he's walked out the door.
Speaker A:And I'm like, you walk, you've just walked out.
Speaker A:He's like, because you've said what you need to say.
Speaker A:And I said, but I've still got so much more to say.
Speaker A:But he processes things differently.
Speaker A:So we, we might have a conversation about something important and, and then he won't really speak at all.
Speaker A:He just kind of just stops speaking.
Speaker A:And then the next day it's kind of like the downloads happened.
Speaker A:He's processed it and he's ready to kind of have a conversation about it.
Speaker A:Whereas for me, I'm quite a fast processor and I want to kind of clear the decks, kind of deal with it right there and then, and then we just move on where he, it takes him longer.
Speaker A:And that's 21 years of marriage that we really figured that one out.
Speaker B:I'm going to tell you right now, it's not going to change.
Speaker B:That's the challenge.
Speaker B:But when, as soon as you understand it and you see it, right, it's not about why won't she shut up or why can't he talk.
Speaker B:Because then it leaves such a bad taste in everybody's mouth with like, what's wrong with you?
Speaker B:There's nothing wrong with either one of you.
Speaker B:And there's nothing about intelligence, right?
Speaker B:It's how we process.
Speaker B:Okay, now what are we gonna do?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And I'll tell you two other quick things that I'll suggest to people is sometimes a person who has a lot to say, I'll ask them to write it down, right?
Speaker B:And sometimes the other partner will say, you know what, you can send that to me.
Speaker B:And they'll read it and then they'll be able to, to, you know, respond to it afterwards.
Speaker B:Sometimes the person's like, no, I really want to say it.
Speaker B:I say, okay, great.
Speaker B:You're going to do one of two things.
Speaker B:Either bullet, point it to five things, you can throw it into ChatGPT.
Speaker B:And I'm serious.
Speaker B:And people do this.
Speaker B:Write it all out.
Speaker B:Tell ChatGPT I need to say this in 100 words or less.
Speaker B:Can you help me summarize it?
Speaker B:And voila, in one second, it will tell you.
Speaker B:This is you tell your Partner, I use ChatGPT all the time.
Speaker B:It is not.
Speaker B:Again, if a couple doesn't want to use it, they don't have to use it.
Speaker B:But it's been so helpful for these different pieces because sometimes the person doesn't know how to summarize it.
Speaker B:Sometimes a partner is like, no, I've got to say all of these things.
Speaker B:Well, but your partner drowned, right?
Speaker B:Like, if you guys boat, you know, you're talking, you're paddling away.
Speaker B:Your partner just fell out and drowned.
Speaker B:Well, we're not going to get anywhere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, this is so interesting, so helpful.
Speaker A:And I can only imagine how great your book is and which I'm going to be buying it immediately because this is what so many of us need because many of us love our partners.
Speaker A:Like, we really love our partners, and we want it to work and we don't want to cause sadness and a split in the family.
Speaker A:But sometimes we just don't know these communication styles like no one's taught us.
Speaker A:So we as adults, mostly in our sort of 40s, 50s, and 60s, are learning how to do relationships differently.
Speaker A:And so what you're doing is incredible.
Speaker A:And then if we can model to our children how we can communicate and hopefully do it without emotional dysregulation and reactivity and understanding what RSD is and how we can move through it with compassion and kindness and all these different things, like, it's amazing.
Speaker A:So people, I'm sure, are going to be wanting to get in touch with you.
Speaker A:Tell.
Speaker A:Tell them how they can find you and guess what services you offer.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So the best way is my website so that you can find out everything you want.
Speaker B:It's counselorforcouples.com counselorforcouples.com I'm assuming.
Speaker B:Will that be in the link here?
Speaker B:Should I.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So that's one way.
Speaker B:And I wanted to share with your listeners, if it's okay, that the book basically came about because my couples would tell me, like, I want to read, I want to do some exercises.
Speaker B:What can I do outside of session?
Speaker B:And there's nothing out there.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a few things, but this chapter is too long or this doesn't really provide me what I'm needing.
Speaker B:And so what I did is I took all that information.
Speaker B:There's stories in there to give hope because sometimes people can really feel like, I don't know, I don't really know if we can make this work.
Speaker B:And there's really some great stories.
Speaker B:And then I took little.
Speaker B:Little bits of information.
Speaker B:And after you work on that little bit of information, because I know too much is not going to work, it's going to be too.
Speaker B:To take in, then I give you questions that you can share on what you just read.
Speaker B:And people have been contacting me saying, like, oh, I love number.
Speaker B:You know, in chapter two, I love number this question.
Speaker B:And this was really helpful.
Speaker B:And it brought connection and conversation in our nook in that place that we.
Speaker B:We connect.
Speaker B:And then there's always a takeaway, because I believe if you don't have a takeaway, if it's not okay, we're gonna work on this thing today, this week, then it's like, oh, that's really nice.
Speaker B:Oh, and I didn't want that kind of book.
Speaker B:And so I really made it as useful, practical that you can do it today so you can get that on Amazon.
Speaker B:And I think those are the really, the best ways to reach out.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:I think that's.
Speaker A:It's so good to know, isn't it?
Speaker A:Because when you're in the trenches and say maybe people can't, you know, afford your counseling, or there's a long wait list to know that there's options out there.
Speaker A:Like a book that genuinely understands all the nuances of being in a relationship with neurodivergence, the impact that has and all the different.
Speaker A:It's kind of like an ecosystem, isn't it?
Speaker A:And it infiltrates all the different parts of that ecosystem.
Speaker A:When you're just reading a normal couple's counseling book or a couple's, you know, therapy book, if that's not taken into consideration, it's kind of like reading a the wrong recipe book for, you know, if you want to write cook Italian food and you're reading a Chinese recipe book, it's just not this.
Speaker A:It's just not right.
Speaker A:So I think a lot of people are going to find this book very, very helpful.
Speaker A:So Lisa, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker A:It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker B:Much your community should just continue to grow and you are providing such a resource.
Speaker B:So thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:If today's episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for even further support, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Tool Kit, is now available to order from anywhere you get your books from.
Speaker A:I really hope this book is going to be the ultimate resource for anyone who loves this podcast and wants a deeper dive into all these kinds of conversations.
Speaker A:If you head to my website, ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk, you'll find all the information on the book there, which is going to be out on the 17th of July.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
