Unlocking Your ADHD: Strategies for Effortless Productivity
Traditional productivity metrics often do not apply to those with ADHD. We need to advocate for a redefinition of success that aligns with our personal strengths and unique workflows. From leveraging technology to simplifying organization to embracing alternative productivity methods, this episode shares practical strategies you can incorporate into your daily lives.
This week, I speak to Skye Waterson, a former adult education, psychology, sociology, and public health academic who is now the founder of the Unconventional Organisation.
Skye was diagnosed with ADHD at the start of her doctorate. Since then, she has researched and disseminated ADHD studies, focusing on supporting others with strengths-based, neurodiverse-friendly tools and systems.
Skye Waterson's journey from academia to entrepreneurship is a testament to the power of understanding our neurodiversity. Diagnosed with ADHD during her PhD, Skye faced the daunting task of reconciling her academic ambitions with the realities of her ADHD, leading her to develop a coaching business dedicated to helping others navigate similar challenges.
The episode dives deep into the intricacies of ADHD, particularly how it manifests differently in women and how societal expectations can lead to feelings of inadequacy and burnout. Skye emphasizes the importance of creating a supportive environment where women can thrive by utilizing tools that cater to their neurodiverse brains.
The conversation underscores the need for greater awareness and acceptance of ADHD, particularly in professional settings, as well as the potential for neurodivergent individuals to excel when given the right tools and support.
During this episode of The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast, we talk about:
- Skye Waterson discusses her journey of discovering ADHD during her PhD, highlighting the challenges she faced.
- Understanding our unique ADHD brains can empower us to embrace different productivity methods.
- The importance of creating effortlessly balanced days where productivity feels natural and fluid.
- Self-belief can be a significant barrier for ADHD individuals when pursuing new projects.
- Using tools like AI can simplify executive functioning, helping to manage ADHD tasks effectively.
- Recognizing past achievements helps build confidence for future endeavours and goal-setting.
Timestamps:
- [02:22] Discovering ADHD in Academia
- [07:35] Understanding ADHD and Productivity
- [13:57] The Importance of Self-Belief
- [28:03] Navigating Career Changes Post-Diagnosis
- [39:41] Additional Resources
Try Kate's new Apple podcast subscription, The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, here
Connect with Skye via her website, www.unconventionalorganisation.com or her Instagram.
Have a look at some of Kate's workshops and free resources here.
Kate Moryoussef is a women’s ADHD Lifestyle and wellbeing coach and EFT practitioner who helps overwhelmed and unfulfilled newly diagnosed ADHD women find more calm, balance, hope, health, compassion, creativity, and clarity.
Follow the podcast on Instagram here.
Follow Kate on Instagram here.
Find Kate's resources on ADDitude magazine here.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EfT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.
Kate Moore Youssef:After speaking to many women just like me, and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with ADHD.
Kate Moore Youssef:In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.
Kate Moore Youssef:Here's today's episode.
Kate Moore Youssef:Today, I'm absolutely delighted to bring to you a guest all the way from New Zealand.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's four in the morning for her.
Kate Moore Youssef:Her name is Skye Waterson.
Kate Moore Youssef:Now, Sky is a founder of unconventional organization.
Kate Moore Youssef:Skye's a former academic with over seven years of experience working in adult education.
Kate Moore Youssef:Skye was diagnosed with ADHD at the start of her doctorate and since then, she has dedicated time researching, disseminating ADHD studies, focusing on supporting others with strength based, neurodiverse friendly tools and systems, which I now believe you've put into your fantastic business, your coaching business, and we will discuss all of that.
Kate Moore Youssef:So, Skye, welcome to the podcast.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm very excited to dive in and get talking.
Skye Waterson:Thanks.
Skye Waterson: bably better equipped for the: Skye Waterson:because we were just talking about it.
Skye Waterson:This is when I usually start working because I work with so many wonderful people in the UK and the US primarily.
Skye Waterson:But I live in New Zealand.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, I mean, the fact that we were just discussing, I was saying there's no way I could do four in the morning.
Kate Moore Youssef: nd you were saying, you know,: Kate Moore Youssef:for you is like really difficult.
Kate Moore Youssef:So it just shows, doesn't it, how unique we all are with our neurodiverse brains and we.
Kate Moore Youssef:It actually just highlights the power of acknowledging what works best for us.
Kate Moore Youssef:Where we do those sprints, where we can be productive, where we know when that productive couple of hours are and when we need to sort of take some time out and rest.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, I mean, first of all, let's backtrack a little bit.
Kate Moore Youssef:And what really intrigued me is that you said you found out that you were ADHD while you were in the process of doing your PhD.
Kate Moore Youssef:Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Skye Waterson:Yeah, so basically I'd gone through my masters and, you know, my grades had been good.
Skye Waterson:But I had felt like I was burning out.
Skye Waterson:You know, I'd actually taken some time off between my master's and my PhD, and it just felt like there was something going on.
Skye Waterson:Some days I was great.
Skye Waterson:Some days I was struggling.
Skye Waterson:There were some areas, you know, with grammar, which I thought maybe I had dyslexia because there were some areas where I was just missing things.
Skye Waterson:So I thought, okay, well, let's go to the inclusive learning center, and maybe they'll diagnose me with dyslexia and we'll find out what it is.
Skye Waterson:So I went in there all scared.
Skye Waterson:I didn't know anything.
Skye Waterson:Despite teaching development in kids, it wasn't a huge.
Skye Waterson:We knew about autism in kids, but that was kind of it.
Skye Waterson:And so I went in, and, yeah, we did a couple of days of different testing, and at the end, they said, okay, we don't know about the dyslexia, but we think you should get your formal diagnosis with ADHD.
Skye Waterson:And I went, I'm sorry, what?
Skye Waterson:And this was right at the beginning of my PhD.
Skye Waterson:It was a really huge moment because I had sort of chosen my professor, I'd chosen my topic, and then everything changed.
Kate Moore Youssef:Wow.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, to have got to that point in academia, and like you said, there was sort of certain things that maybe you'd kind of, like, picked up some red flags, but you just kind of persisted.
Kate Moore Youssef:I wondered when you had then had that kind of, like, realization about the ADHD, did you look back and realize how much effort and how exhausting it must have been being in this academic world?
Kate Moore Youssef:Probably having to work twice, three times as hard as other people.
Skye Waterson:Yeah.
Skye Waterson:Well, I sort of realized that, you know, I knew that academia, you know, especially when I first started, I was looking into, am I a clinical psychologist?
Skye Waterson:Am I a lawyer?
Skye Waterson:I was doing all of those, you know, very competitive tracks.
Skye Waterson:And so everyone was competing.
Skye Waterson:Everyone was competing to get into these small things and that kind of stuff.
Skye Waterson:And then I think what happened was I went the more, you know, general psychology academic route, and I still was just working at that level and assuming that kind of everyone else was.
Skye Waterson:And the truth was that that wasn't true.
Skye Waterson:Like, other people were doing other things.
Skye Waterson:But, you know, for me, I was bringing all of this, and one of the things that I had once I got diagnosed was I could finally understand, okay, this strategy that I'd had, this was why I was doing it.
Skye Waterson:This strategy I'd had, I was just doing that because it worked one time.
Skye Waterson:It had nothing to do with ADHD.
Skye Waterson:So I could actually put down some of the unnecessary stuff that I'd accumulated.
Skye Waterson:I was.
Skye Waterson:It was very much like, you know, throw some salt over your shoulder.
Skye Waterson:It works.
Skye Waterson:One time.
Skye Waterson:Oh, that must be it.
Skye Waterson:You know, not really actually having any reasons because I didn't know.
Skye Waterson:I just knew that.
Skye Waterson:I just knew that I was, like, in what I would now consider to be a bit of an ADHD burnout cycle.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, I'm more interested to know what attracted you to the academic world and to wanting to do the PhD.
Skye Waterson:It was largely because I could not imagine myself in a job.
Skye Waterson:And I also think maybe I had the dubious benefit of graduating during the recession the first time.
Skye Waterson:So I graduated at a time when it was very, very hard to get a job.
Skye Waterson:So there was this huge barrier to entry, of actually, like, everyone was applying for jobs and it was very difficult to go through that job process.
Skye Waterson:But even when I did and I got, you know, through and I was doing interviews and things like that, I never felt comfortable with the idea of, like, picking one thing and doing that.
Skye Waterson:Like, if you look at my academic, especially pre ADHD career, I was like, going psychology, sociology, public health, population health, you know, and so there was this feeling of like, maybe I just haven't found the topic that's gonna light me up for the rest of my life.
Skye Waterson:Ironically, that was true.
Skye Waterson:Now, I found this.
Skye Waterson:But the ADHD side, it did leave me kind of wanting to just keep exploring, especially in my twenties.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, I mean, what I can hear is that there was all these little clues and that kind of questioning of, like, why can't I just find that thing that just interests me and I can just stay interested and do what?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, you know, normal.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm doing inverted commas, neurotypical people do, and they find the one thing and then they just focus on that and then.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I think actually, academia is a very ADHD, a line of work to go into because we love research.
Kate Moore Youssef:We can uncover new things, our curiosity, our hyper focus.
Kate Moore Youssef:You know, on the flip side, it can be very difficult.
Kate Moore Youssef:There's a huge amount of burnout.
Kate Moore Youssef:I see this in hearing from a lot of people who have done PhDs and masters and worked in sort of research or doctorates, and there is that sort of burnout.
Kate Moore Youssef:But when we understand our ADHD and we understand the way our brains work, then we can work in a way that suits us.
Kate Moore Youssef:And this.
Kate Moore Youssef:What sort of brings me to my next question is that it seems that you really have a passion for helping people understand their productivity and get the best out of their ADHD productivity because we want to dispel these myths and these stigmas of, oh, we're not productive.
Kate Moore Youssef:We can't get things done.
Kate Moore Youssef:We're hugely disorganized.
Kate Moore Youssef:And, yes, there obviously is a huge amount of that because we have not understood our brains and we've been fed a huge amount of negative beliefs about ourselves and which, you know, if we've never had an understanding, we believe those.
Kate Moore Youssef:And then it's just a kind of like a snowball effect.
Kate Moore Youssef:But when we're able to get that awareness of the ADHD and go, oh, okay, so I'm productive, but I'm just not productive in a way that other people are productive.
Kate Moore Youssef:And we let go of that shame, and we embrace that.
Kate Moore Youssef:I love.
Kate Moore Youssef:I really love to be able to help people with that and see that and recognize that.
Kate Moore Youssef:Tell me a little bit about, is that, like, a bit of a cornerstone of your business and is that passion of yours?
Skye Waterson:Yeah, 100%.
Skye Waterson:You know, often what I want people to know is that it doesn't have to be.
Skye Waterson:Everything is being pushed up the hill all the time.
Skye Waterson:That feeling like you're just pushing, you wake up and even before you get out of bed, like, the.
Skye Waterson:Getting out of bed feels hard.
Skye Waterson:Everything feels hard.
Skye Waterson:One of the things that I've learned and I've studied and worked with people on is that we can create these kinds of effortlessly balanced days where things just flow.
Skye Waterson:They feel like, oh, and I'm getting up, and I'm using this strategy and this dopamine here, and this is organized in the way that works for my brain, and now I'm getting some stuff done.
Skye Waterson:And that didn't feel bad, actually, that felt okay.
Skye Waterson:And so you're not fighting your internal adhd ness the whole day, getting to the end of it, being super exhausted, bedtime procrastination, not getting enough sleep, starting again the next day, we can tip the scales in the opposite direction.
Kate Moore Youssef:I love that this effortlessly balanced way, because I believe that when we've been diagnosed later on in life, we, our nervous systems have just got used to working in this way where everything feels stressful and anxiety inducing and we don't know what life feels like when things feel like, you say, effortlessly balanced and easy and in flow, because we've always been pushing ourselves up, up that hill.
Kate Moore Youssef:And then we can just make a choice.
Kate Moore Youssef:We can just go, actually, it's okay for me to do things differently and do well doing that.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, when we are doing things well and we are being successful and things are flowing.
Kate Moore Youssef:There's a voice in the back of our head going, well, this is you.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like this.
Kate Moore Youssef:Something's gonna change.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, something's gonna blow up here because.
Skye Waterson:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:And that, again, in, like, our nervous system is like, well, life feels good.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I feel like I'm kind of, like, leaning into what feels good to me.
Kate Moore Youssef:But why should it be this easy when my whole life it hasn't been easy?
Kate Moore Youssef:And that takes a lot of getting used to.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, for me, I'm still like that.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, I'm like, how do I do?
Kate Moore Youssef:This is my job.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, is this a real job?
Skye Waterson:Because when I tell people what my.
Kate Moore Youssef:Job is, yeah, I may.
Kate Moore Youssef:I've made up my title and what I do because it doesn't really exist.
Kate Moore Youssef:So tell me a little bit about when people are coming to you and they're saying, I've got a project and I have something big that I want to complete, but I just don't know how to get from a to z because all those little things in between are just so terrifying and overwhelming.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I just don't think I've got it in me.
Kate Moore Youssef:I don't think I've got that capability.
Skye Waterson:Yeah, well, you know, one of the things that we talk about is that project design or goal setting, these kinds of things, they are as much of an ADHD struggle as anything else.
Skye Waterson:People often say, like, you need to work towards the goal.
Skye Waterson:That's the ADHD struggle.
Skye Waterson:But actually, when you look at time blindness, when you look at working memory, even setting the goal is a struggle in itself.
Skye Waterson:So the first thing that we would do is actually take you back five years ago and say, where were you and what were you doing?
Skye Waterson:Where are you now?
Skye Waterson:Trying to get a sense for you of how time works.
Skye Waterson:Kind of like even place you in time and from there kind of go, okay, you didn't know anything about ADHD five years ago.
Skye Waterson:Like, this is your life.
Skye Waterson:This is where you were, and look where you are now.
Skye Waterson:That's really cool.
Skye Waterson:Kind of get a little bit of that positive energy going, and then from there go, okay, now, what is your project?
Skye Waterson:What is your goal?
Skye Waterson:And often that helps people to really see how time could work both positively and negatively.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, I think that's really powerful for people, especially with ADHD, to be able to see how far they've come because we're so focused on all the things that we perceive that we can't do properly or can't do well or where we have that sort of deficit in.
Kate Moore Youssef:And actually to be able to say, well, that version of you five years ago had no awareness and look how much awareness that you have now, and look what you are considering and look what you are thinking of taking on.
Kate Moore Youssef:And we just think, well, if that's where we are right now, let's have a little think about where we're going to be in a few years time, that growth.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I think focusing on that, but I mean, I go back all the time to even myself now and I have a huge amount of self belief than I used to.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, there's no way the version of me five years ago would have envisioned myself where I am right now, doing what I'm doing.
Skye Waterson:Oh, same.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I, I feel sad for that version of me because I genuinely didn't think I had it in me to be able to first of all, like, stay with something for this long.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, the podcast has been going for two and a half years to stick at something, to not get bored.
Skye Waterson:Congratulations.
Kate Moore Youssef:Thank you.
Kate Moore Youssef:But also the project, you know, the things behind it, I didn't know if I had.
Kate Moore Youssef:And thankfully I've been able to lean into support and delegate and everything.
Kate Moore Youssef:But is this where you come in when people are coming to you and they are desperate to make change and they're desperate to fulfil their potential?
Kate Moore Youssef:Would you say that sometimes that barrier that block is their self belief, that they can take a project from the beginning to the end?
Skye Waterson:I think it's really tough.
Skye Waterson:I mean, it's very hard to bring self belief to somebody if they don't have it.
Skye Waterson:The ways that I've really been able to do it is one talking about what they've already done to give them a sense that they have achieved in the past and they can do it again.
Skye Waterson:The other one is trying to share the fact that I have ADHD, the community has ADHD, what other people have done.
Skye Waterson:We have a channel dedicated to what we call small win celebrations.
Skye Waterson:Every time somebody has a win, they share it there to build up everyone's confidence in having these wins.
Skye Waterson:But also, sometimes you do have to just say like, okay, this is why we're doing things.
Skye Waterson:It's kind of like, you know, coaching can kind of feel like you're doing a magic trick, but you're going to show them exactly how it's being done.
Skye Waterson:You know, like, okay, I know that you've done this before and it didn't work and that was really frustrating, but we're going to actually break down your tasks using an AI.
Skye Waterson:I use goblin tools.
Skye Waterson:We're going to use that to kind of break down your tasks.
Skye Waterson:So we have something that's doing the working memory for us and then we're going to check that and then from there we're going to pick one and we're going to set it up in a specific kind of way and so on and so on.
Skye Waterson:And so that kind of thing I find explaining the executive functioning and the reasoning behind everything that's happening while it's happening gives people a lot more confidence because I don't want them to be confident in me, I want them to be confident in themselves.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:And you mentioned using goblet.
Kate Moore Youssef:Now, I've not used it, but I know here in the UK it's available as part of access to work.
Kate Moore Youssef:Oh, really?
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, I'm almost sure it is.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's an option that's cool because it.
Skye Waterson:Is free to get, but it might be a paid version.
Kate Moore Youssef:Maybe it's a paid version or maybe it's something else, I'm not sure.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I just wondered what your thoughts were for using AI and the tools and using that as kind of like part of our executive functioning.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I know that Doctor Tamborde, Laura Raisier, who wrote the brilliant book your brain's not broken, one of her concepts is borrowing someone else's executive functioning.
Kate Moore Youssef:And when I heard that concept, I was like, oh my God, that's amazing.
Kate Moore Youssef:So someone can borrow my creativity and my kind of, like, I don't know, hyper focus and curiosity and then I can borrow someone else's executive functioning and, you know, processing or whatever, but using AI, I'm hearing more and more that a lot of people who are a bit more savvy with tech are using it and having great success.
Kate Moore Youssef:I just wondered what your thoughts were.
Skye Waterson:Yeah, well, yeah, I'm a big fan of using any of the tools we use.
Skye Waterson:You know, we'll use Miro, we'll use, which is a digital whiteboarding system, we'll use AI.
Skye Waterson:Goblin tools is particularly helpful, specifically, you know, designed for ADHD in that way, but it's really about knowing how to use it and when to use it.
Skye Waterson:You know, a lot of times people will come to me sort of overburdened with apps.
Skye Waterson:They'll have kind of like apps coming out of every little, like, nook and cranny.
Skye Waterson:They'll be like, these are the five journals.
Skye Waterson:This is the one for this day.
Skye Waterson:This is the one for that day.
Skye Waterson:And this is my app that I half use and I didn't use anymore.
Skye Waterson:And so one of the things we first have to do is we have to kind of clear away a lot of the stuff because, you know, I have this as well, and I have to be very strict with myself around.
Skye Waterson:Like, you don't just get to start a new app because somebody mentioned it, so easy to do.
Skye Waterson:And, you know, there is that burst of dopamine from starting a new thing, and it's clear, so there's no way to mess it up, you know, yet.
Skye Waterson:But we teach systems for how to build it because otherwise it can just become another thing that's kind of like, in the way.
Kate Moore Youssef:Totally.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I'm so glad that you said that because, you know, as a podcast, I get a lot of people who are creating ADHD tools, systems, AI, you know, apps and all of that, and they always want to kind of come on the podcast or they want me to talk about it.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I actually, for me, the way my brain works.
Kate Moore Youssef:And again, because we're all very different and unique, that I really just need simplicity.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I have been that person that has five different journals and think, right, I'm gonna have a journal for like, just, you know, brainstorming.
Kate Moore Youssef:They're gonna have a journal for this journal for that.
Kate Moore Youssef:And then I forget which journal is which, and then I lose a journal.
Kate Moore Youssef:And so for me, the consistency that's worked for me is using my notes, sending myself text messages, and my alarm on my phone, like reminders constantly.
Kate Moore Youssef:So everything's kinda of on my phone, because there's only so many apps we can all have on our phone, and it's contributing to the burnout and the overwhelm, and simplifying our systems and simplifying the way we work, for sure, for many people, is the way we can be more productive, I think.
Skye Waterson:Yeah, I've seen people do amazing things by simplifying their systems, and I've seen people close million dollar deals.
Skye Waterson:Some of my clients with their Google Doc, it's really amazing.
Skye Waterson:I see us as more of tech minimalists because, you know, it can be very high tech, but it's about integration.
Skye Waterson:But a lot of that is about supporting working memory, especially when you're in that capture phase of organization.
Skye Waterson:And this is actually something we talk about once we get into the depths of those big projects, we have to have an organizational system.
Skye Waterson:And so there's sort of three phases.
Skye Waterson:There's sort of the capture phase, the prioritization phase, and the scheduling phase.
Skye Waterson:And you sort of have to go through these three phases of organization.
Skye Waterson:And sometimes, often those three phases need three different things, but they have to be super integrated and at the capture phase, you know yourself and you'll have this experience if you have ADHD and you're like, oh, I've got to remember that.
Skye Waterson:Great.
Skye Waterson:You have one click to write that down before it's gone.
Skye Waterson:If you have to open something, open something else, you're not going to remember that and then you're never going to write it down again because your brain knows you're never going to remember it, so you're just going to put it somewhere else.
Skye Waterson:You put it in your notes app anyway.
Skye Waterson:So that's often how we end up with so many journals.
Skye Waterson:It's like the one we're supposed to use and then the one we actually use because our working memory doesn't let us get to the one we're supposed to use.
Kate Moore Youssef:Correct.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, one of my fun games is going through my notes app and going through things that I've written on a dog walk or like when I've just got out the shower and then written it going, I will definitely look at that tomorrow.
Kate Moore Youssef:Then obviously I don't.
Kate Moore Youssef:And so I find, like, ideas for workshops, ideas for podcast episodes, for, you know, courses, and I'm like, oh, how did I, how did I know that?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, that, what a great idea.
Kate Moore Youssef:And obviously it's just totally gone, but at least I know that it's there and it's not in five different journals.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I love what you said then about, like, how you've seen people become, you know, hugely successful because we mustn't forget that when we've got ADHD, there's a very high chance there's dyslexia going on.
Kate Moore Youssef:This dyscalculia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia.
Kate Moore Youssef:There's something else going on alongside the ADHD and we feel very limited when we have all these ideas in our head.
Kate Moore Youssef:But then putting it out on it in a presentation, on paper, in a book, in academia, all of that, it can make us feel less than and it can make us feel stupid that, why can't I work out that presentation deck?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, why can't I do that thing wherever moving images?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, I have that with social media that I see a lot of people doing these cool memes and reels and all of that, and I'm still kind of stuck about five years ago.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, literally, does it have the right sound?
Kate Moore Youssef:Does the writing look, you know, correct?
Kate Moore Youssef:And that's kind of the way I am.
Kate Moore Youssef:But it is what it is and we just have to work with what we've got, but hopefully kind of growing a little bit at the same time.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I think my question really is when people come to you and they're saying, I have this idea, I have this potential, I want to do this big project, but my brain just likes simple.
Kate Moore Youssef:My brain just needs to be able to know that I'm not going to get distracted and I'm not going to get lost in a hyper focused tunnel somewhere else.
Kate Moore Youssef:How do we bring ourselves back so we can complete that task?
Skye Waterson:Yeah, I think that's a really great thing.
Skye Waterson:And this is something I actually learned before I got diagnosed because I had to write theses.
Skye Waterson:And, you know, I'm not a natural writer.
Skye Waterson:People are really surprised because my articles are the thing that I'm often most known for.
Skye Waterson:A lot of it has to do with, again, it's that flow.
Skye Waterson:You want that effortless flow.
Skye Waterson:So it's, you know, often it's about, okay, you need to get started on something.
Skye Waterson:There's ways we can help you with that.
Skye Waterson:There's like, you know, start by rewarding yourself just for sitting down.
Skye Waterson:Start by, you know, doing something and then turn down the dial on that distraction.
Skye Waterson:Don't turn it from like, I'm on social media to I'm doing nothing.
Skye Waterson:Turn it down to, like, podcast music, and then write down exactly what you're going to get done during that time.
Skye Waterson:So we have a whole process on that.
Skye Waterson:If you're interested, you can read my article on the distraction dial where we talk about it a little bit.
Skye Waterson:But then once you're actually starting, if that feels difficult, then often it's like you said, it's about going, okay, maybe I'm not the kind of person who's going to start by writing.
Skye Waterson:Maybe I need to draw diagrams.
Skye Waterson:Maybe I need to talk.
Skye Waterson:There's amazing voice to texts all over the place now that you can use.
Skye Waterson:The best one is just Google Siri, that kind of thing.
Skye Waterson:They do voice to text now, you know, so that can be helpful.
Skye Waterson:Talk and walk, you know, so there's different ways that you can get the information down, especially in that initial capture stage.
Skye Waterson:And then once you have it, you can do it.
Skye Waterson:And I am.
Skye Waterson:I've written a thesis and I have done like the most terrible drafts, you know, just going to a coffee shop and writing by hand, even though I then had to hand type it all to the computer because that was just, was the best way to get it down.
Skye Waterson:And so, you know, we are all different.
Skye Waterson:And I think you're totally right.
Skye Waterson:I think one of the things we'll probably find in the future is that this is huge.
Skye Waterson:Unknown.
Skye Waterson:Other diagnoses, dyslexia, dysgraphia, they don't get diagnosed, but they actually do have a big impact on people's lives when they're neurodiverse, because we do tend to have this cloud of things around us.
Kate Moore Youssef:Totally.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, I know for sure that I have other things going on.
Kate Moore Youssef:Maybe.
Kate Moore Youssef:Definitely dyscalculia.
Kate Moore Youssef:Definitely dyspraxia.
Skye Waterson:Same.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Kate Moore Youssef:I just.
Kate Moore Youssef:I would say dyslexia more.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm noticing it as I get older, which is really weird because I never really suspected it, but I'm really noticing certain things.
Kate Moore Youssef:Maybe it's just because I'm more educated and aware and I can see the nuances of how it shows up.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it's not just, you know, difficulty in reading or writing or spelling or anything like that.
Kate Moore Youssef:So, yeah, I think it's a matter of being able to know that when we have been conditioned by the education system, and the education system says, you have to write an essay like this, and it has to.
Kate Moore Youssef:You have to have sat down and written it using this and using that and doing this and not doing that.
Kate Moore Youssef:So we kind of grow up as adults going, well, if I do it like that, that's wrong, and I need to get permission to do it like this, and if I don't do it like that, then I'm going to be cheating.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it's a mentality that so many of us are stuck with.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I actually was on a, like a Facebook post, someone was asking about writing with ADHD, writing a book with ADHD, and this person was almost asking for approval of the, of the, the group, saying, I actually do really well when I do the voice to text and I just talk.
Kate Moore Youssef:And she said, but am I cheating?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, is that.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm not writing a book, am I?
Skye Waterson:Cause it doesn't feel as horribly hard as it did before.
Skye Waterson:Yeah, I sometimes, if you wanna talk about feeling a bit like this job is too easy or too good, people will come to me and they'll be like, there is no way.
Skye Waterson:I have never done this before.
Skye Waterson:It's never worked before.
Skye Waterson:And I'll just be like, okay, well, have you tried it like this?
Skye Waterson:You clearly like doing it like this.
Skye Waterson:And then within 50 minutes, they're like, well, I'm doing it.
Skye Waterson:This is amazing.
Skye Waterson:But it's just because they've like, there is this mental block around it.
Skye Waterson:And, you know, this is kind of how we have.
Skye Waterson:We have these things about a lot of things in our lives, and it is that permission.
Skye Waterson:And I have to remind myself sometimes, you know, to give myself permission to do things the less efficient way, because I think that's the problem as well.
Skye Waterson:A lot of the discussion is like, well, you type directly into a computer, you know, onto a document, because that's the most efficient way to write.
Skye Waterson:But that might not be the most efficient way to think.
Skye Waterson:So often I ask people, how do you think, if you're trying to think about something, where do you think that's where you should write?
Skye Waterson:That's where you should work on the project.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:And to move on to something I wanted to sort of close with is the pivoting of when we get the ADHD diagnosis and we've been working in an industry or we've been working in a specific career that, like you say, has been felt like a slog.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's felt hard.
Kate Moore Youssef:It hasn't had that flow, and we've had burnout and all these different things, but we've kind of stuck at it because we should inverted commas.
Kate Moore Youssef:Then we get the diagnosis, we get the awareness, we understand, and it's almost like we still need that permission to change careers, pivot, do things differently.
Kate Moore Youssef:And, you know, I presume we're working with grown adults who've got responsibilities, maybe kids, and they still kind of think, well, am I allowed, like, am I allowed to move careers?
Kate Moore Youssef:Are you noticing that a lot it with sort of pivoting or career change when people get their diagnoses?
Skye Waterson:I think a lot.
Skye Waterson:I think, you know, especially with the diagnosis, I think one of the things with ADHD, and I don't know if this, there's some qualitative evidence to indicate that this is true.
Skye Waterson:We are quite empathetic and mission driven.
Skye Waterson:If you say, and there is some more evidence to indicate that we're, they're motivated by intrinsics specifically.
Skye Waterson:So I think when we get diagnosed, it really lights a fire.
Skye Waterson:And for a lot of us, it sort of helps us to understand what is our passion, how do we actually want to work?
Skye Waterson:And sometimes that realization can move you away from the space that you were in, where you were struggling.
Skye Waterson:And sometimes we just make adjustments to what we're doing, but sometimes we have to shift altogether.
Skye Waterson:And that can be really, really difficult for the reason of, obviously, the permission.
Skye Waterson:Sometimes it's more of a sideways move, at least initially, especially if you're going to go out on your own.
Skye Waterson:That can be tough because you're going from a space where you're like, you know, you have a job, and if you say, what do you do?
Skye Waterson:You have an answer for them to somewhere where that's less the case.
Skye Waterson:And also just because the executive functioning of actually making those changes anyway.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, absolutely.
Kate Moore Youssef:And in the fact that you were diagnosed or you had that realization, like, halfway through your PhD, and you said to me, you know, earlier, it was the hardest decision you've done to leave academia and to leave the confines of the PhD.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, how much kind of stress did that bring you to have to make that decision and to say, right, I've decided to walk away and set up my own business.
Skye Waterson:It was hard.
Skye Waterson:It was really hard.
Skye Waterson:It was, honestly, in the end, I think the reason I was able to do it was because it was my, the advice of my supervisor and even, you know, like, colleagues, because, you know, they said, look, the PhD, you can come back and do the PhD again.
Skye Waterson:But it was, it was tough.
Skye Waterson:I, you know, I think I'd had my, my first son about a year before, and, yeah, you got to know when you're not able to do all of the things.
Skye Waterson:And, you know, the PhD was coming down to a point where it was going to be a lot of the writing, and it was going to take a lot of the same brain space as the academics.
Skye Waterson:And I also, honestly, I wanted to come back later and do a PhD in this topic, in this thing that I had been studying, you know, my own way, doing the articles and studying it and still study it today independently.
Skye Waterson:So, yeah, it was a really hard discussion thing to do.
Skye Waterson:I haven't really talked about that much on a podcast.
Skye Waterson:I think this might be the first time.
Skye Waterson:So I'm getting a little bit emotional just having this conversation.
Skye Waterson:But it was the right thing to do, and I'm very, very happy about it.
Skye Waterson:But it was definitely, I think, an impostor syndrome moment, because it's like, you know, oh, well, you finish it and then you do everything.
Skye Waterson:But, you know, part of it is acknowledging, okay, I can't.
Skye Waterson:And this is the same thing I tell to my clients.
Skye Waterson:And, you know, ironically, it's always hard for you to do it as well.
Skye Waterson:Not everything is right now.
Skye Waterson:Everything is at, you know, you can do most of the things you want to do, hopefully at some point in your life, but you can't do everything that you want to do right now.
Skye Waterson:So it's about what is now and then what is not now.
Skye Waterson:And I ended up deciding that the PhD was not now.
Skye Waterson:And I'm very, very happy with that decision.
Skye Waterson:It's allowed me to have the focus, to really focus on this and just give it my all and grow it.
Skye Waterson:And it's been amazing.
Skye Waterson:But, yeah, it was tough.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, I can really empathize and I can see how difficult that must have been.
Kate Moore Youssef:I think it's wise words to know that, you know, we do have so much passion and we are sort of purpose driven, like you say, mission driven.
Kate Moore Youssef:And we do want to do everything but at the risk of our health.
Kate Moore Youssef:And, you know, neurodivergent burnout is very common because we do want to save the world a lot, and we do want to kind of make our mark and leave a legacy and all those things.
Kate Moore Youssef:And that's why so many people, if you look through history, there's a very high chance that many of these people who did leave a mark in the world were probably neurodivergent in some capacity.
Kate Moore Youssef:But we also have to recognize that do we want to carry on certain generational patterns that perhaps have happened in our family and recognize our mental health as, like, being probably there at the very, very top, especially when we are parents.
Kate Moore Youssef:When we are, you know, you've got very young children and, you know, as my kids get older, I want to model to them to show them that, yeah, it's good to do everything but to be a workaholic and to focus only on work and achieving and productivity and all of that.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's not the be all and end all in life, and it's good to have rest and time to recharge and have space and time out and holiday and all these different things that are so powerful for us.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I know that we actually, from the neurodivergent brain perspective, we do really, really well with rest and space and downtime and decompression because that is when things integrate and we think about things and all the cogs kind of go and things click into place.
Kate Moore Youssef:And even if we just go for a walk for an hour, we'll come back and we'll have kind of lots of solutions and lots of ideas.
Skye Waterson:Exactly.
Skye Waterson:Exactly.
Skye Waterson:And, you know, I know that, you know, ten years from now, me is going to be so happy about that decision because, you know, it's allowed me to really focus in on this and do this well.
Skye Waterson:And I'm not by any means saying I'm just doing one thing.
Skye Waterson:I have kids, there's multiple projects going on in the business.
Skye Waterson:You know, I'm not saying you should just do one thing at a time.
Skye Waterson:I think it gives you time to then you know, do this and do this really well, run unconventional organization really well, and then grow the research side, the research arm of our organization, to then hopefully, what I would like to do is start publishing papers as part of that and bring that back into the academic space in its entirety.
Skye Waterson:Like, that is the goal, what we've been talking about.
Skye Waterson:But it's those first shaky steps when you take them out of the world of what you're supposed to be doing.
Skye Waterson:And people are like, oh, how's it going?
Skye Waterson:And you have to say, oh, I chose to do something interesting.
Skye Waterson:That's something that was very difficult to do.
Kate Moore Youssef:I think the fact that you're going to focus on research will be amazing because that's what we need.
Kate Moore Youssef:We keep going back to, we don't have enough evidence.
Kate Moore Youssef:We don't have enough research.
Kate Moore Youssef:We don't know enough about, especially women with ADHD and adulthood.
Kate Moore Youssef:That is what we need to be able to remove the stigmas and say to the doctors and say to our employers and all the people that are still naysaying ADHD in adulthood and going, we have the evidence here, so the system and the world and everything has to change now because we have a better understanding.
Kate Moore Youssef:And this is not just hypothesizing.
Kate Moore Youssef:We are getting this from a very sort of evidence based level, and it's really powerful for a lot of people to say, right, okay, we get it now, and we're gonna make a change.
Skye Waterson:Yeah.
Skye Waterson:No, 100%.
Skye Waterson:I think it's.
Skye Waterson:It helps, you know, when you have the research behind everything.
Skye Waterson:And one of we're so passionate about doing that on the podcast is disseminating it in a way that makes sense to people so that they can feel a little bit more confident when they get told by somebody like, hey, there's this and there's that.
Skye Waterson:Not that you should by any means, obviously, you should listen to all your doctors and people like that, but you can have a conversation.
Skye Waterson:You could say, oh, you mentioned this.
Skye Waterson:That's.
Skye Waterson:I do.
Skye Waterson:I know about that.
Skye Waterson:I have some information about that.
Skye Waterson:I think it can be really, really helpful.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:So tell people, what's the name of the podcast?
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm definitely going to be listening to this now.
Skye Waterson:Thank you.
Skye Waterson:It's called the ADHD Skills lab.
Skye Waterson:Every two weeks, Sarah, my producer, and I, we go through and discuss the latest research that's come out.
Skye Waterson:So we recently did an episode deep diving back into dopamine, talking about all of the different dopamines.
Skye Waterson:And I sort of say to people, I want it to sound.
Skye Waterson:It sounds maybe a bit dull, but it's actually, you know, if you think back to if you did university, you're hanging out with, with your colleagues, you know, your friends, and just chatting about something that was really interesting to you, like, oh, did you know that that was that?
Skye Waterson:And it's really cool that they did that, but they didn't do this thing like I was expecting.
Skye Waterson:And, you know, we try and keep it like that.
Skye Waterson:We cover a couple of papers in a certain topic, and then on other weeks we have interviews with amazing people.
Skye Waterson:We've had on the podcast, Jeremy, the president of Chad, came on.
Skye Waterson:She talked about her experiences with ADHD, her strategies.
Skye Waterson:So we kind of keep it strategy.
Kate Moore Youssef:And research focused, brilliant, and tell everyone where they can find you.
Kate Moore Youssef:If this type of coaching is really speaking to them, like where, how can they work with you?
Skye Waterson:Yeah, so you can find me@unconventionalorganization.com.
Skye Waterson:and yeah, unconventional organization is where you can find the podcast.
Skye Waterson:It's where you can find a ton of free articles that I've written that go through some of that research and some of those strategies, and you can also join our community if you want to.
Kate Moore Youssef:Fantastic.
Kate Moore Youssef:Well, skye, it's been an absolute pleasure.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm going to let you go now.
Kate Moore Youssef: It's nearly: Kate Moore Youssef:got to get to work.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, you can go and have, maybe go and have, have a coffee or whatever you do.
Skye Waterson:Yes.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I just want to thank you so much for being here and sharing all your insights and expertise, because I think for people to understand their productivity and to remove the shame around what works for them and how they work.
Kate Moore Youssef:And hopefully, like you say, just like we can be more effortlessly in flow, we can be more balanced.
Kate Moore Youssef:We can find that sweet spot and succeed.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, we just want to see people with ADHD flourish, thrive, succeeded, grow, expand, and have an awareness of our challenges, but not be completely debilitated by them, it's all about seeing them, recognizing them, and then working with them and finding solutions.
Kate Moore Youssef:And that is how I love to work.
Kate Moore Youssef:So I'm really, really happy to have brought you onto the podcast today.
Skye Waterson:Yeah, well, thanks for having me.
Skye Waterson:I've always been listening and following you, so I was really excited to come on.
Skye Waterson:So thank you so much.
Kate Moore Youssef:If you've enjoyed today's episode, I invite you to check out my brand new subscription podcast called the Toolkit.
Kate Moore Youssef:Now this is where I'm going to be opening up my entire library, my vault of information from over the years, my workshops, webinars and courses, my conversations with experts about hormones, nutrition, lifestyle and bringing brand new, up to date content from global experts.
Kate Moore Youssef:This is going to be an amazing resource for you, to support you and guide you even more on more niche topics and conversations so you can really thrive and learn to live your best life with ADHD.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm so excited about this.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's the toolkit on Apple Podcast.
Kate Moore Youssef:You get a free trial.
Kate Moore Youssef:Really good to see you there.
