Practicing Low-Demand Parenting with ADHD
Before starting today's episode, why not check out Kate's ADHD workshops and free resources here?
Ever since reading about the concept of 'low-demand parenting,' which is helping many neurodivergent parents regulate their neurodivergent kids, I've been desperate to talk about this on the podcast. It was a revelation to learn that there is an actual practice where we can intentionally drop the external pressures and societal conditioning and intuitively parent our children according to their needs, energy, and nervous systems.
I'm delighted to welcome this week's guest, Amanda Diekman, an autistic adult, parent coach, and author in the neurodiversity space. We discuss dropping demands, restoring calm, and finding connections with our children.
Amanda became a leading voice in the movement for low-demand parenting practices with her book Low Demand Parenting, published in July 2023. She lives with her husband and three neurodivergent children in an intentional community in Durham, NC.
On today's episode of the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast, Amanda and Kate spoke about:
- Amanda's son's autism diagnosis journey
- What it means to be a 'low-demand parent'
- Re-defining how you want to parent
- Abeism - what does this look like
- Letting go of parenting demands, habits or standards that aren't benefiting you
- Releasing all the expectations, pressures, shoulds and conditioning to help create a calmer environment for our family
- Things you can drop or change to make parenting easier for you
- Making communication safe for your autistic or neurodivergent child
- What it means to 'un-school'
- Dealing with systems and schools as a neurodivergent parent
- Asking for accommodations for you and your children
Look at some of Kate's ADHD workshops and free resources here.
Kate Moryoussef is a women’s ADHD Lifestyle & Wellbeing coach and EFT practitioner who helps overwhelmed and unfulfilled newly diagnosed ADHD women find more calm, balance, hope, health, compassion, creativity, and clarity.
Follow the podcast on Instagram here.
Follow Kate on Instagram here.
Find Kate's resources on ADDitude magazine here.
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Transcript
Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.
Kate Moore Youssef:After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.
Kate Moore Youssef:In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings, and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.
Kate Moore Youssef:Here's today's episode.
Kate Moore Youssef:Today we have a very interesting guest.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm absolutely delighted to welcome Amanda Dieckmann, who is an autistic adult parent, coach and an author in the neurodiversity space.
Kate Moore Youssef: ing, which came out last July: Kate Moore Youssef:And Amanda also runs a successful coaching practice for parents of neurodivergent children, including online courses and a vibrant membership community.
Kate Moore Youssef:And she lives with her husband and her three neurodivergent children in North Carolina in an intentional community.
Kate Moore Youssef:Which we're going to talk about, which I've just been hearing about off air, which is just fascinating and very inspiring, but we'll leave that to the conversation.
Kate Moore Youssef:So, but I just wanted to welcome you, Amanda, because I've been so looking forward to this conversation.
Amanda Dieckmann:Thank you.
Amanda Dieckmann:I'm really excited about it too.
Amanda Dieckmann:I feel like processing the ways in which low demand can be really life giving for ADHD years is a conversation I've been wanting to have.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I'm really, I'm really excited about this as well.
Kate Moore Youssef:You're using the word low demand parenting.
Kate Moore Youssef:Now there's going to be a lot of people that may have not heard this terminology before, but they will really feel that this is probably something they need in their life.
Kate Moore Youssef:Obviously we're going to be talking, we're talking to parents right now because I hear these common themes of exhaustion, overwhelm, pressure, just feeling like they just have so many expectations and outside stress and everything just feels so complicated.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it sort of comes with this, I guess this trend of being helicopter parents where we want to be doing the best we can for our kids kind of education wise, and all the activities and making sure the kids are eating and, you know, the right food, organic cooking, home cooking.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like there's just so many pressures and it is, we are seeing Just like this frazzled state of parents.
Kate Moore Youssef:But then on top of that, we've got newly diagnosed neurodivergent parents who may have not known that they were neurodivergent parenting their own neurodivergent children.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it feels like there's this common theme of so many of us just on the breaking point.
Kate Moore Youssef:And then when I came across yourself on Instagram and this term low demand parenting, I just thought, this is a revelation and we need to talk about this.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I'd love you to be able to explain, I guess, the origins how you came into this and what it looks like.
Kate Moore Youssef:Really?
Amanda Dieckmann:Yeah, definitely.
Amanda Dieckmann:Well, I can relate to everything you just shared because that is my story also, and how.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that is the origin story for me of what low demand looks like.
Amanda Dieckmann:Is it is me asking, can I live like this?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, is there a way through that doesn't just burn me out over and over and over again?
Amanda Dieckmann:There's gotta be more to life and my own quest for that.
Amanda Dieckmann: So in: Amanda Dieckmann:I didn't know he was autistic then.
Amanda Dieckmann:I'd never heard of autistic burnout, but it just looked like a kid who suddenly couldn't anymore.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like he'd been trucking along, doing, doing, doing.
Amanda Dieckmann:And then there was a day.
Amanda Dieckmann:And for some people it's gradual, but for us, it was suddenly he just couldn't.
Amanda Dieckmann:How old?
Kate Moore Youssef:Do you mind me asking?
Amanda Dieckmann:He was six.
Kate Moore Youssef:Right.
Amanda Dieckmann:He couldn't go back to school.
Amanda Dieckmann:He couldn't speak to me in any other way besides screaming or calling me names.
Amanda Dieckmann:His food intake reduced down to just two or three foods.
Amanda Dieckmann:He mostly watched YouTube alone in his room for 10 hours a day.
Amanda Dieckmann:And it was terrifying because I had no idea what this was, and I didn't know he was autistic.
Amanda Dieckmann:I was really very much at the beginning of my neurodivergent journey.
Amanda Dieckmann:So anybody that's kind of in a similar place, like, I don't even know what I'm seeing.
Amanda Dieckmann:I just know that this is big.
Amanda Dieckmann:And it felt like a failure.
Amanda Dieckmann:It felt like I was a failure of a mom and that he was a failure of a kid, because what other.
Amanda Dieckmann:I didn't have any other lens.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I had been raised to see the world in terms of success and failure.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I.
Amanda Dieckmann:It broke me because I didn't want to be a person who looked at their child and saw failure.
Amanda Dieckmann:I wanted a way of viewing him and viewing the world that had room for this too to be okay, for me to be able to trust this part of his life story, just like I was able to trust the part where he was growing and thriving and going to preschool and learning new things.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so in that season, it became.
Amanda Dieckmann:It was such a hard time for me and for our family.
Amanda Dieckmann:And at the end of that first year, I knew so much more.
Amanda Dieckmann:We had his autism diagnosis.
Amanda Dieckmann:We had so many new words and labels flying around, but it had been such a difficult year for me that I ended up being diagnosed with PTSD from the experiences that we'd gone through both in our home and interacting with professionals who were supposed to be helping us and who ended up shaming and blaming me.
Amanda Dieckmann:And through all of that, I.
Amanda Dieckmann:A couple months after that PTSD diagnosis, after a good amount of intensive healing, I wrote Low Demand Parenting in a six week period.
Amanda Dieckmann:I just sat down and just blah.
Kate Moore Youssef:Blah, blah, blah, blah, like, it all.
Amanda Dieckmann:Flowed out of me, out of this.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, cry out to the universe that this is what I have learned, Like I have survived and there is another way and we all, we must know it.
Amanda Dieckmann:It was like a battle cry kind of.
Amanda Dieckmann:So that context that you're speaking to, that overwhelm, that exhaustion, like, that is actually the fertile ground, like it birthed something really beautiful in our lives.
Amanda Dieckmann:So practically speaking, low demand is about attuning and aligning with what's in front of you and saying this is also allowed to be.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's not about striving or making things better or always trying to improve.
Amanda Dieckmann:It was about me saying, I can be.
Amanda Dieckmann:I don't need to be a good mom or a bad mom.
Amanda Dieckmann:I can be a brave moment.
Amanda Dieckmann:I can show up for what life has brought me.
Amanda Dieckmann:And in that season, it brought me a kid who was in deep distress.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so when I say a tuning and a lining, it was like, okay, you can eat pretzels and Nutella and you can eat ice cream from a bowl by the cartload, and I'm going to provide you those foods because this is what you need in order to feel safe.
Amanda Dieckmann:It looked like me saying, if we can't talk back and forth, then I'm going to learn to communicate with you through thumbs up and thumbs down and through notes slid under the door.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that's good, that's good enough.
Amanda Dieckmann:You don't have to say, yes, ma'am.
Amanda Dieckmann:You don't even have to say, yes.
Amanda Dieckmann:Just, I can accept that this is where you are and make this safe.
Amanda Dieckmann:And the beautiful thing about this process is that we've been trained to believe that if we aren't always pushing ourselves and our kids, that we will become lazy and self indulgent and that we will just like kind of crumble into pieces if we're not always holding ourselves to a high standard or always put.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I believe that about myself.
Kate Moore Youssef:Absolutely.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I believe that about my kid.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I thought, well, if I come down to his level, like, if I make this okay, well, then how much worse could it get?
Amanda Dieckmann:You know, and he'll never, he'll never whatever, you know, that's what the fears and the projections said.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, he'll never eat anything else.
Amanda Dieckmann:If I say it's fine for you to eat pretzels and Nutella, then that's all he'll ever eat.
Amanda Dieckmann:Or if I don't make him come out of his room every day and get fresh air and exercise, his body will never get strong again.
Amanda Dieckmann:He'll just stay in this room playing video games and YouTube forever.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's what the fears said.
Amanda Dieckmann:And the beautiful thing is it was not true, not in any way true, that safety and affirmation and support is what we need in order to grow.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that when we drop those high standards for our kids, it bounces back for us and we have a chance to heal.
Amanda Dieckmann:All of those stories that we've told ourselves about, like, well, if I don't push all the time, then I'll be lazy and I'll be a mess and it'll just be, you know, everything will fall apart.
Kate Moore Youssef:First of all, what a horrendous time that must have been for you as a parent.
Kate Moore Youssef:I can't imagine how scary and worrying that was and the impact on you and your family and just everything.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I'm so glad that they're doing, you know, better now.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I, and I hope that people listening to this right now and perhaps they're going through something similar.
Kate Moore Youssef:I know, I hear it a lot that, you know, through a lot of my coaching clients, they come wanting to talk about them, but there's so many worries about their own children.
Kate Moore Youssef:Children and most of us who have got children, we worry about our kids and we do worry about the future.
Kate Moore Youssef:So let's strip this back because I really want to be able to hopefully highlight to parents now that even if they want to bring in a little aspect of this lower demand parenting today, tomorrow, what would you say?
Kate Moore Youssef:If someone has intrinsically invested their energy into parenting being good parents, especially if we've not been parented the way we wanted to be parented, then we overcompensate which I see a lot of that we didn't get the parenting and the love that we wanted.
Kate Moore Youssef:So we're going to do 10 times more at the detriment of our own health.
Kate Moore Youssef:So what little tiny tweaks can we bring in?
Amanda Dieckmann:Oh, that's such a beautiful and important question.
Amanda Dieckmann:One tweak is probably a big tweak, but it's something that you can let start small and then see how it grows.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's a wondering question about big system ableism, which is this like whole big blanket for like all the other isms that make their way in.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's not something we're doing on purpose.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's like this is the air we breathe, the water we swim in.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's been baked into us since we were itty bitty and talking about that generational aspect oftentimes our parents very consciously taught us some of these more ableist ideas when we were really little.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so I'll just make that practical.
Amanda Dieckmann:It might be something like, you know, if you were an adhder and you were a little person who had a lot of energy and a lot of ideas and you needed to pivot from one thing to the next to the next to the next a lot, your parents maybe said something like, you know, you're too wild, you need to focus, you need to buckle down and get serious.
Amanda Dieckmann:You know you're only going to make it in life if you can finish something that you start right.
Amanda Dieckmann:So you got that message and that was like it was stated as an absolute.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like if you don't get a handle on yourself, you are going to be a failure.
Amanda Dieckmann:That is an ableist view about your brain.
Amanda Dieckmann:That is a view because ableism is this idea that there is one right and best way to be a human and that all of us will succeed or fail to the degree that we can approximate that.
Amanda Dieckmann:So the closer we get to the good and right and best way to be a human, the more successful we'll be in.
Amanda Dieckmann:The further away we are, the more we're going to fail.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like that's the idea.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so the wondering, it's just is this true, this thing that someone else is saying?
Amanda Dieckmann:Maybe it's an expert who's like, well, you know, you need to have a chart for your kid of like all the tasks that they need to accomplish in the morning because they need to be able to put their own shoes on and get their own lunch ready and be out the door on time.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like that's what it, that's what good Kids look like.
Amanda Dieckmann:And you could just back up and be like, is that true?
Amanda Dieckmann:Is that true?
Amanda Dieckmann:Is that really what this kid needs to be learning right now?
Amanda Dieckmann:And then maybe back up to yourself.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, maybe you're saying that same thing to yourself.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, if you're late, you are.
Amanda Dieckmann:You're letting other people down and you are violating the social contract and you are less good of a human and less worthy of love and less worthy of affirmation because you're always late.
Amanda Dieckmann:Right?
Amanda Dieckmann:And is that true?
Amanda Dieckmann:Is that true?
Amanda Dieckmann:Can you be just as worthy and just as wonderful without a ingrained sense of time?
Amanda Dieckmann:You know, like, who decided that being on time was also a moral?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, that you were better for being on time?
Amanda Dieckmann:You know, so that's one thing is like, find your little.
Amanda Dieckmann:Maybe it's like a teenager part of you that like, wants to sort of step back and cross their arms and be like, yeah, but who says yeah?
Amanda Dieckmann:And let that part just have a field day with all of these ideas swirling around.
Amanda Dieckmann:Because I think just asking that question can open up a possibility of making a tweak and letting something go.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's when we go from the thought to the action really, really fast.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, well, then I have to.
Amanda Dieckmann:Then we get like, okay, well then I'm going to Google, like, what does Etsy say about the best charts?
Amanda Dieckmann:And we're like, all lost.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's already done.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, you're inside my head right now.
Amanda Dieckmann:Right?
Amanda Dieckmann:Once you're on Pinterest, you've already lost.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, back up.
Amanda Dieckmann:Is this true?
Amanda Dieckmann:Is this right?
Amanda Dieckmann:Is this aligned?
Amanda Dieckmann:Is this actually what matters to us right now?
Amanda Dieckmann:Or does something else matter more?
Amanda Dieckmann:And it's very possible that safety and trust actually matter more than all of the doings, things that you're spending so much of your energy trying to make happen again for you and your kids.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's the same conversation.
Amanda Dieckmann:You can drop demands for your kids or you can drop demands for yourself.
Amanda Dieckmann:Whatever is the way in if you feel like we are scheduled to the max.
Amanda Dieckmann:My kids need all these activities.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's really important.
Amanda Dieckmann:We can't let any of them go.
Amanda Dieckmann:Okay, fine.
Amanda Dieckmann:Then that's not your way in.
Amanda Dieckmann:Step back and look at yourself.
Amanda Dieckmann:What are the things that you're expecting of yourself that are just not doable right now?
Amanda Dieckmann:Maybe you need to be in a paper plate season for a while because just the getting dishes in, dishes out, or dishes washed, you know, like, maybe that's just not.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's not your season.
Amanda Dieckmann:You're in a paper plate season and that in There is no moral failing there.
Amanda Dieckmann:Or maybe you're in a.
Amanda Dieckmann:We don't wash everything after we wear it season.
Amanda Dieckmann:You're like a.
Amanda Dieckmann:You know, we wash the essentials, but we're not going to wash every single T shirt.
Amanda Dieckmann:They're fine.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I define a demand as anything that is too hard in the present moment.
Amanda Dieckmann:And it is as simple as that.
Amanda Dieckmann:You get to decide what is too hard right now.
Amanda Dieckmann:Because some things are hard and they.
Amanda Dieckmann:And we're brave and we show up and we ask for help and we do our best and we don't have to be perfect.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that.
Amanda Dieckmann:That is beautiful.
Amanda Dieckmann:That is a whole category of hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:But we can really only sustain so much hard in our life.
Amanda Dieckmann:We have.
Amanda Dieckmann:We have capacity for hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:And then what's missing, though, is too hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:Because when things are too hard, we let it go.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I think we've.
Amanda Dieckmann:We've learned only hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's all we know how to do, is, like, push through and do more.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I actually think push through and do more is like a whole thing I just want to put on the shelf.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, that doesn't exist for me.
Amanda Dieckmann:There's hard where it's like, I have capacity for this, and I will show up and I will do my best and I will ask for help.
Amanda Dieckmann:And when something is a demand so it is too hard, then let's say it's like having friends over is now in your too hard category, or having them every week is too hard or something.
Amanda Dieckmann:You kind of define it.
Amanda Dieckmann:Then for every demand that this is too hard, I always like to find the layers.
Amanda Dieckmann:So it's like, if you've seen that image of the iceberg and only a little bit sticks up above the water.
Amanda Dieckmann:So the demand is that teeny bit sticking up above the water.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's like your signal that there's a lot more under it.
Amanda Dieckmann:So then the demand is a concrete thing.
Amanda Dieckmann:Having friends over twice a week, brushing teeth every night, doing weekly laundry, going to gymnastics class.
Amanda Dieckmann:You know, it's like.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's a concrete thing.
Amanda Dieckmann:Eating at the dinner table.
Amanda Dieckmann:It could be anything.
Amanda Dieckmann:But then for every demand, underneath it is a positive expectation that we have for ourselves or our kids of what it looks like to be good.
Amanda Dieckmann:So something like good kids do lots of activities, or good kids have lots of friends, or good moms entertain or good friends host parties or whatever it is.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's like a general statement that we have about what the good life looks like.
Amanda Dieckmann:And there's so much work to be done there with saying, wait what if none of that stuff exists?
Amanda Dieckmann:What if it's all made up?
Amanda Dieckmann:What if I am good enough just as I am?
Amanda Dieckmann:I don't have to become good by doing certain things.
Amanda Dieckmann:I am good just as I am.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so that's the work there.
Amanda Dieckmann:But then there's a whole nother level if we're like, really subterranean with this stuff that has to do exactly with what you mentioned.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, it's so specific so that the love the expectations level might be really similar between us.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like you mentioned.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, it might be baked into us.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, good women do these things, or good moms do these things.
Amanda Dieckmann:But the really deep stuff is particular to you and your story.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's the things that only you can say.
Amanda Dieckmann:So it might be something like, we didn't have enough money for gymnastics class growing up, and I always wanted it.
Amanda Dieckmann:And my parents told me that I didn't matter enough to spend our precious extra income on the one thing that I wanted in the world.
Amanda Dieckmann:And, you know, they spent it on their stuff, but never on me.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I swore that I would give my kids everything so that they could thrive.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so, no, you can't quit this gymnastics class because we have paid money for it and you have to keep going.
Amanda Dieckmann:Right?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, that's why when our kid is like, I don't like gymnastics, we're like, oh, yes, you do.
Amanda Dieckmann:And you will go, and your coach is expecting you.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's that, like, really deep stuff and sometimes we forget to go down there.
Amanda Dieckmann:We either get stuck on like, yes, you will go to this gymnastics class and we never go beneath the surface, or maybe we get down to like, well, good kids follow through on their commitments and you don't waste your parents money.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that's kind of in the expectations, like, the good life category.
Amanda Dieckmann:But we don't really go there to like, well, how did I build that view?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, why is that so important to me?
Amanda Dieckmann:And we really can't drop the demands until we go all the way down.
Amanda Dieckmann:I mean, we can let it go for a week or two, or we could say, okay, fine, we'll lose the money on gymnastics.
Amanda Dieckmann:You don't have to go.
Amanda Dieckmann:But deep down, there's going to be this belief of, like, am I a bad mom because I let her off the hook?
Amanda Dieckmann:Or like, is she not going to follow through on her commitments?
Amanda Dieckmann:Or does she not really feel loved or whatever those, like.
Amanda Dieckmann:And it's going to live in us and then it's just going to come out the next time.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Amanda Dieckmann:So to really do the work, we Gotta go all the way down to the basement.
Kate Moore Youssef:So I'm just interrupting today's episode to let you know about a brand new live workshop that I've got coming up on the 24th of May at 1pm and this workshop is all about reducing your ADHD overwhelm in family life and discovering and welcoming in more calm and regulation.
Kate Moore Youssef:Now, I want to let you know that I don't have all the answers, but it's something that I deal with on a daily basis.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I've discovered over the years of understanding my own ADHD and coupled with all my coaching and talking to my experts on the podcast, as well as all my hundreds of coaching clients, that there is a way of living without feeling in this sort of default state of feeling like you're drowning, that you're stressed all the time.
Kate Moore Youssef:And juggling family life alongside an ADHD brain can feel overwhelming at best and debilitating at worse.
Kate Moore Youssef:And life is happening at the moment at breakneck speed.
Kate Moore Youssef:We are all struggling to feel balanced, like we're keeping up.
Kate Moore Youssef:And so I wanted to share with you six steps that I know have worked for me and six steps I often talk about to many of my private coaching clients.
Kate Moore Youssef:I wanted to share this in a group live workshop.
Kate Moore Youssef:So if this is something that you are dealing with right now and you would love some more support, new ideas, different perspectives, I would love it if you could join me.
Kate Moore Youssef:All the details are on the Today's Show Notes, but also on my website, which is ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk if you head to the Show Notes or my website, you'll find all the information and it's in one hour.
Kate Moore Youssef:You'll learn some new ways of coping and feeling more resilient and looking at life differently and feeling like you don't have to be at the mercy of everything that's piling up on top of you, that you do have have control and choice over what you choose to bring into your family life.
Kate Moore Youssef:So I really look forward to seeing you there.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's the 24th of May, 1:00 and it's all the details are on my website.
Kate Moore Youssef:Now back to today's episode.
Kate Moore Youssef:This word burnout that perhaps we were only hearing maybe from like a corporate sense ten years ago, but I'm hearing it so much more in the female community with regards to parenting and juggling and just everything and that we just can't give anymore and we're prioritizing everyone else and our needs are right at the bottom.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I want to Bring that back to ableism as well.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's a conversation that I hear more about in the autism community than I do in the ADHD community.
Amanda Dieckmann:I feel like there is still among a lot of ADHDers, this sense of like, well, I have this kind of brain, and so these things are hard for me.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I have to work ext so that I can still do all the things that are expected of me.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that's where executive functioning comes in.
Amanda Dieckmann:Tools, hacks, it's all around like, I've still, I've got to do all the things, but they're really hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I have to layer on all of this in order to meet.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I again, I just want to ask the question, like, could you say I have a kind of brain that makes these things impossible for me and it's not aligned for me to do all the things.
Amanda Dieckmann:I don't need more hacks and more systems and more tools.
Amanda Dieckmann:I need to say, that's all for the birds.
Amanda Dieckmann:I'm not gonna do it.
Amanda Dieckmann:I'm not gonna play that game.
Amanda Dieckmann:It isn't made for me.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's made to burn me out.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's what will happen if I spend my lifetime trying to become something that my brain was never made for and I'm opting out.
Amanda Dieckmann:I mean, I don't know what that looks like, but it may in my family, it means me being more honest with my kids about my own disabilities and saying, look, guys, I love you to the absolute moon and back.
Amanda Dieckmann:I will do whatever I can for you.
Amanda Dieckmann:And there are some things that are too hard for me and we can't do them because they are too hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:Same as I would if I had a physical disability and they were like, I really need to get into this building to get this class.
Amanda Dieckmann:But let's say, you know, they only have stairs and there's no elevator.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I'm like, guys, I cannot.
Amanda Dieckmann:I cannot get up there.
Amanda Dieckmann:We can't do that class, because this building was not built for me.
Amanda Dieckmann:It is inaccessible to me.
Amanda Dieckmann:I can't get to the second floor until this building changes and adds an elevator.
Amanda Dieckmann:What would it take for that WhatsApp group to get its stuff in a pile and send out one concrete bulleted meaningful communication per week and then have an optional, here's all the stuff.
Amanda Dieckmann:You know, like, that's a systems question.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's not a you problem.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's a them problem.
Amanda Dieckmann:It wasn't built for your brain.
Amanda Dieckmann:You're never going to be able to to manage all of that, no matter how Hard you work because it's going to burn you out.
Amanda Dieckmann:So use your precious energy saying, either I'm going to opt out of this whole thing because it is not for me, or saying, hey, look, system, this is about my kid.
Amanda Dieckmann:My kid wants me to be able to sign her forms and pick her up on time.
Amanda Dieckmann:And in order for us to get that for her, you got to work with me.
Amanda Dieckmann:Disabled adult who has a brain that is not built for your system.
Amanda Dieckmann:So fix your effing system, right?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like that's what we need to do collectively as a community.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I do think that if ADHDers got on board with this view, we could see a lot more systemic change.
Kate Moore Youssef:I wish it was that simple because we're here, especially here in the uk, we are, you know, we're really at the beginning stages of people even understanding neurodivergence, understanding what it looks like, and asking for accommodations at work, you know, simple accommodations where there's still so much stigma and shame.
Kate Moore Youssef:And in the uk we've got this kind of, you know, stiff upper lip.
Kate Moore Youssef:Just get on with it, stop moaning.
Kate Moore Youssef:All this woke nonsense, you know, like, you hear about it and you feel the undertones, even if they're not saying it.
Kate Moore Youssef:And if you work in a corporate environment, it's just, you deal with it, you know, you want a job, deal with it.
Kate Moore Youssef:Stop moaning, stop asking for things.
Kate Moore Youssef:Other people get on with it.
Kate Moore Youssef:This is the kind of narrative I'm hearing from different places.
Kate Moore Youssef:You know, even I've got a client who is a doctor and she is, she's been diagnosed with ADHD and she still feels from the other doctors in her practice that there is still a sort of a level of really, like, is this whole ADHD thing real?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, are people really this bad?
Kate Moore Youssef:And that's coming from doctors.
Kate Moore Youssef:So there's still so much invalidation, so much.
Kate Moore Youssef:It can be really scary, you know, to unmask, to ask for what you need.
Kate Moore Youssef:Because there is still this quite wide systemic reaction, I think, to saying, I'm an adult, I've just been diagnosed with autism or adhd.
Kate Moore Youssef:And they'll be like you, you've got your shit together, you've got a family, you work.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like there's no.
Kate Moore Youssef:Your house is tidy, like there's no way.
Kate Moore Youssef:And then we have to over explain and it's exhausting.
Kate Moore Youssef:And like you say, you know, we only have a finite amount of energy and then it's on top of that having to explain ourselves and ask for things and, you know, feel that we're worthy of asking those things as well.
Kate Moore Youssef:And sometimes it's easier just to kind of go, you know what?
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm just going to put up and shut up and just deal with the broken system.
Kate Moore Youssef:None of this is correct, none of this is right.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I hope that over time, the more we're having these conversations and the more people are just kind of going, you know what, I can accommodate that person if that person is telling me that working in the office five days a week with all this background noise and artificial light is burning them out.
Kate Moore Youssef:Let's see what happens if they work from home three days a week.
Kate Moore Youssef:And let's just, you know, it's just about the open mindedness and the curiosity that people are willing to, I hope, just lead with a bit more compassion and just say, okay, well let's, let's try these things out.
Kate Moore Youssef:But we also have to feel safe.
Kate Moore Youssef:Safe to go there.
Kate Moore Youssef:It is about this radical acceptance of where, where we are right now.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I know you have taught, you talk a lot about like homeschooling or unschooling.
Kate Moore Youssef:There is a lot of people in the community whose children are, you know, this school refusal, they're finding it really hard to get them into mainstream schools.
Kate Moore Youssef:We're juggling full time work and we are needing to reduce all these expectations.
Kate Moore Youssef:How are people navigating this if they are working and the children are refusing to go to school and where do we begin?
Amanda Dieckmann:Gosh, that's a really, really hard question.
Amanda Dieckmann:I'm grateful for the advocates who are getting loud about this and I know that there's a whole movement going on in England right now around just a huge pushback.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I just feel like we all need each other.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so thank you for the people who are picketing and writing letters to government and changing laws and all of that.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's so important.
Amanda Dieckmann:But for me, you know, I'm just like, I'm just another mom trying to figure this out.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I'll speak from that perspective.
Amanda Dieckmann:What it looks like for me is again, it's about letting go.
Amanda Dieckmann:The things that I have control over that I'm able to drop so that I have more emotional energy that I can put into figuring out how to make it work.
Amanda Dieckmann:So it is about identifying what is droppable and what isn't, what's a priority and what isn't.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I kind of like a little square for myself of like with one column is can I drop it and can I not?
Amanda Dieckmann:And then the vertical is, does this matter?
Amanda Dieckmann:And does it not?
Amanda Dieckmann:And it just helps Me, in any given moment when I've got a thousand things swirling in my mind is I just try to chart out where they fall.
Amanda Dieckmann:Because if it doesn't matter and it's droppable, like, boom, easy peasy, let it go.
Amanda Dieckmann:If it's not droppable and not doable, then I move into another process where I take those things and I break them down into as many itty bitty pieces as I can.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, I can't drop the whole thing around school, but what can I drop around school?
Amanda Dieckmann:And just trying to get as many pieces, okay, I could drop that.
Amanda Dieckmann:We always wear the right thing.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, maybe I could get a special dispensation around uniform.
Amanda Dieckmann:Or maybe I can drop communication demands.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like maybe the teacher could email me instead of us talking at the door.
Amanda Dieckmann:Because that's super overwhelming and I'm never going to remember what they tell me or, you know, like, what are the tiny things around school that we could let go of while we're.
Amanda Dieckmann:While I can't drop the whole thing.
Amanda Dieckmann:And then I also look at what is droppable.
Amanda Dieckmann:But it, but it still matters to me because sometimes those things, then that's where we kind of go deep under the water.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, well, why does this thing matter to me?
Amanda Dieckmann:Is there deep work that I could do to let go so that I can drop?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, I could let it go, but it just, it hurts me.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like I don't want to.
Amanda Dieckmann:Is it because this really matters for my thriving or is it because I'm scared of what would happen if I let it go?
Amanda Dieckmann:So it's like different work is needed depending on where it falls in that.
Amanda Dieckmann:In those quadrants.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, yeah, that's really helpful.
Amanda Dieckmann:Yeah, getting clear on that so that we're not.
Amanda Dieckmann:We don't need to do the deep work around some of the stuff and other stuff we do.
Amanda Dieckmann:The other thing that I think is important about unschooling and this whole process is a big piece we can drop is the time that it takes.
Amanda Dieckmann:I think we're often in a hurry to figure this stuff out.
Amanda Dieckmann:And that makes a lot of sense because we've got to figure out what to do about work.
Amanda Dieckmann:We've got to tell school, you know, we've got to, we got to figure it out.
Amanda Dieckmann:We got to figure it out.
Amanda Dieckmann:And the reality is that it takes a long time and that it's always shifting.
Amanda Dieckmann:And I can't drop the world's urgency, but I can drop my own judgment of like what it all means.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I guess practically what that means is when we were in a year long discussion with school about trying to navigate home based schooling and all of this, I just regularly said to myself it's okay that this is taking a long time.
Amanda Dieckmann:It doesn't mean I'm a failure.
Amanda Dieckmann:We have time to figure it out.
Amanda Dieckmann:My kid is okay, just kind of like narrating things, being slow as not necessarily bad.
Amanda Dieckmann:And same thing with the deschooling process.
Amanda Dieckmann:Once we did come out of school, but we still couldn't really do much of anything because we were so exhausted from the whole journey of trying to be in school.
Amanda Dieckmann:It took us like a whole nother year just to like figure out what it meant to be in the same home all the time.
Amanda Dieckmann:And for me to figure out how to do my work around my kids needs and different childcare arrangements, it just took a long time.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I'd say now we're in year three and I'm finally figuring out okay, how do I do a 3/4 time job while I homeschool my 3 kids while my husband has a full time job.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like it just has taken us a while to figure it all out.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, and that sounds such a big change and a lot of work.
Amanda Dieckmann:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I know you sort of talk about the low demand parenting but that's really hard as well to know that you've got three kids at home, you're homeschooling them and that pressure on you to be the educator.
Kate Moore Youssef:But also on the flip side, I guess then you now know what your kids need to thrive and when you need to let them play.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it's not as structured and there's all these different, I guess these, all these nuances that I guess this conversation is literally an opening to anyone that's listening right now who kind of thinks something needs to change and they're noticing all this overwhelm and pressure and exhaustion and.
Kate Moore Youssef:But they don't really know how to, didn't know how maybe how to articulate it.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I think what you've done in this conversation is amazing because maybe it can heal, it can heal something or it can give us that permission slip to say this week everything is going to be freezer food or this week we're having cheese, cheese toasties or jacket potatoes every single day.
Kate Moore Youssef:And you know, for me the biggest thing that's ever happened in my life is the air fryer because it has enabled my kids to be really independent.
Kate Moore Youssef:I buy loads of like what I hope is relatively, you know, healthy freezer food.
Kate Moore Youssef:They can then make themselves food they're not shouting to me that they're hungry.
Kate Moore Youssef:Sometimes, you know, dinner is made in 10 minutes because I put it in the air fryer and it's on the table.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I have to say, it's made a big difference to our life, the air fryer.
Kate Moore Youssef:So it's finding these little things that it's okay if you've not stood by the stove stirring for 20 minutes doesn't make you any less of a parent or wife or whatever you want to describe it.
Kate Moore Youssef:What's kind of changed for you?
Kate Moore Youssef:If you look at the you five years ago, 10 years ago, maybe the beginning of a journey, what's that big change for you?
Amanda Dieckmann:I put a lot of energy into things that.
Amanda Dieckmann:It turns out once I did that, like, under the iceberg, work didn't matter to me at all.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, getting everybody to sit down at the table and eat a meal all at the same time every evening.
Amanda Dieckmann:I put a lot of energy into that because it was so hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so then I'm like, okay, well, then we need feeding therapy.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I've got to find it ot that can do feeding therapy so my kid can eat the things that I'm putting in front of them.
Amanda Dieckmann:Then we need this whole, like, disciplinary chart for what do you do when you hit your brother at the table?
Amanda Dieckmann:Or I'm researching, like, why is my toddler throwing their food?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, there's so much work that went into trying to get us all to sit at the table.
Amanda Dieckmann:And what I would do now, like, if I could go back to those early days, I would be like, oh, eating at the table is too hard.
Amanda Dieckmann:We're going to drop it.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yes.
Amanda Dieckmann:And just, like, shortcut all of that work that I poured into trying to make that thing work, because it doesn't matter to me.
Amanda Dieckmann:I think if it really mattered, like, if I was truly getting something really important out of that act, then maybe that work would have at least been in service of something.
Amanda Dieckmann:But, like, deep underground, I don't care.
Amanda Dieckmann:I put so much work into something I do not care about.
Amanda Dieckmann:But I never even asked if I cared because it was like, I should care because, like, this should matter.
Amanda Dieckmann:Or if people found out that we don't do family meals like X, y, or Z, bad thing might happen.
Amanda Dieckmann:It was like, all fear and projection and trying to be somebody I'm not.
Amanda Dieckmann:And then what I discovered in letting that go is that what family meals were all about was about connection and trust and having shared family rituals around those things so that we knew that moments of connection and trust would Happen on a regular basis.
Amanda Dieckmann:And like, for us, that's around play.
Amanda Dieckmann:We wrestle or we play charades, or we swing in the yard and stim together.
Amanda Dieckmann:We have all these like little stim games that we play as they're swinging where like one kid makes a sound and then we echo the sound or we like rhyme words or just like things that make us feel happy.
Amanda Dieckmann:Whereas trying to sit at the table and have a back and forth question and answer conversation.
Amanda Dieckmann:I mean, we tried so hard at that stuff.
Amanda Dieckmann:None of us like it.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, none of us like to be asked questions.
Amanda Dieckmann:So why we had these like little games where you would pull a card and then everybody would have to go around and answer it just to try to learn neurotypical communication.
Amanda Dieckmann:And again, if I could just go back, I would be like, dear heart, you don't like asking or answering questions, and yet you have now spent months making these rituals that you don't even like.
Amanda Dieckmann:So, yeah, I think I would.
Amanda Dieckmann:I would say one of the biggest things is discovering my own quirky weirdo humanity is like discovering who I am underneath all of the trying to be somebody I'm not, which is the unmasking.
Amanda Dieckmann:But that happens, like on a deep level and at home.
Amanda Dieckmann:And again, it's slow because for months I was just devastated about losing this family mealtime until I was able to do the deep work around, like, well, what are meals even about?
Amanda Dieckmann:And can I let go of this idea that we'll be able to go out to a restaurant and be like everybody else and just kind of like sit there quietly?
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, we can't.
Amanda Dieckmann:My children are plenty old enough to be able to sit in a chair like they're 11, 9, and 7.
Amanda Dieckmann:But we can't.
Amanda Dieckmann:We cannot go to a.
Amanda Dieckmann:They'll be crawling everywhere loud.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's just what their bodies do in those environments.
Amanda Dieckmann:Again, like, they're not built for us because they're always really noisy and there's so much going on visually, all that stuff.
Amanda Dieckmann:So, yeah, giving myself a lot of permission to be who I am, which then ripples outward to be able to give my kids permission to be who they are and figuring out what is a good life look like for us.
Amanda Dieckmann:That's not about approximating everybody else's thing, but just being like, very wild and free and being ourselves.
Kate Moore Youssef:I love that.
Kate Moore Youssef:That's beautiful.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I think so many people will relate to that because, you know, I'm speculating, but I guess you guys are probably good if you go to a park or you go and hang out in nature and you running around.
Kate Moore Youssef:And a lot of families don't do that.
Kate Moore Youssef:A lot of families only connect in one way, and they don't connect by going out and, like, you see playing.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I just think if there's at least if you're connecting in some capacity, whether it's around the table in a park, playing games at bedtime, it just.
Kate Moore Youssef:As long as it's your way that feels really good and really natural, then your kids couldn't ask for any more.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I love that you've given people this invitation to let go and to just feel a bit freer in their family unit and to trust that they do know best and they do know what's good for their kids and for them.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I know I mentioned it right at the beginning of the podcast that you have decided to live in this intentional community and you explaining to me that there's what, about 100 families and you have chosen to all buy houses next to each other, and you all have different disabilities and I guess, different needs, and you support each other.
Kate Moore Youssef:And in a few sentences, can you tell me a little bit?
Kate Moore Youssef:Because I just think it's so inspiring.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I just wanted to finish with that, maybe see if wanted to start their own communities.
Amanda Dieckmann:Yes, absolutely.
Amanda Dieckmann:Well, we live in an urban area, so we were able to buy, like, one city block which has a bunch of different multifamily units in it.
Amanda Dieckmann:So it's a mixture of, like, apartments and homes.
Amanda Dieckmann:And they're not 100 families, but 100 residents is our numbers.
Amanda Dieckmann:And it's called the north street community.
Amanda Dieckmann:You can learn more.
Amanda Dieckmann:We've had a couple of different news stories done about what we're doing.
Amanda Dieckmann:As far as I know, we're really the only community quite like this.
Amanda Dieckmann:But there have been many other communities that we've modeled ourselves on over the years.
Amanda Dieckmann:But, yeah, what we do is very ordinary.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's like we help each other get groceries, we get rides to work, we share meals, our kids play together.
Amanda Dieckmann:You know, we're just like neighbors.
Amanda Dieckmann:But the intention behind everything we do is really around creating a place where we don't have to hide the things that we need support with, where they can just kind of be right out in the open and where there's the possibility of getting really genuine care in community from the people that we live near.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's called north street, and it's in Durham, North Carolina, if you want to learn more.
Kate Moore Youssef:That's beautiful.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it just shows, doesn't it, the power of community and support.
Kate Moore Youssef:Support and connection.
Kate Moore Youssef:And knowing that you can be authentic with those people and having that common.
Kate Moore Youssef:The common ideology of being open.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I think it's beautiful.
Kate Moore Youssef:So I will link that, I will put that in the show Notes.
Kate Moore Youssef:If people are interested, they can learn a little bit more.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I think a lot of people might want to get in touch with you, Amanda.
Kate Moore Youssef:And can you tell people how they can find you?
Kate Moore Youssef:Is your book available on Amazon?
Kate Moore Youssef:Tell us more.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yes.
Amanda Dieckmann:Okay, I'll start with the book.
Amanda Dieckmann:It is available.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's published by a British publisher, so very much available in the uk.
Amanda Dieckmann:You can get the print book, you can get Kindle, you can get the audiobook.
Amanda Dieckmann:So however you learn is it's all out there.
Amanda Dieckmann:And if you just kind of want to get a sense of our story, you can get the first chapter for free on my website, which is amandad.
Amanda Dieckmann:And the first chapter is very much a narrative style of what we've been through and a kind of overview of the philosophy of low demand.
Amanda Dieckmann:So I think you'll have a sense of whether or not it's worth spending your money on after you read the first chapter.
Amanda Dieckmann:So that's a good way to get that for free.
Amanda Dieckmann:And then I'm online in many of the places at low demand.
Amanda Dieckmann:Amanda.
Amanda Dieckmann:I'm most active on Instagram and Facebook, but I'm kind of popping up in some other places as well.
Amanda Dieckmann:I really love creating community too, among the.
Amanda Dieckmann:Among parents that many of us who are practicing low demand feel really lonely and a little bit scared because we feel like we're the only ones doing it this way.
Amanda Dieckmann:And so a big part of what I want to do and be about is bringing people out of the shadows and giving them a sense of like, hey, keep your head up high.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, I dropped an ans and I'm proud of it.
Amanda Dieckmann:So that's part of the permission slip too.
Amanda Dieckmann:It's like you don't.
Amanda Dieckmann:You don't have to hide it, you know, make it like this sort of secretive, shameful thing.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, I don't make my kids change their clothes every day.
Amanda Dieckmann:Like, no, be like, I don't make my kids change their clothes every day.
Kate Moore Youssef:Celebrate.
Kate Moore Youssef:Celebrate.
Amanda Dieckmann:Yes.
Amanda Dieckmann:So we do a lot of celebrations on social media where people can share the things that they're dropping and the whole community can cheer for them.
Amanda Dieckmann:And, you know, it's anonymous, but it's still feels really good to know that you're not the only one.
Kate Moore Youssef:Amanda, thank you so much.
Kate Moore Youssef:Really appreciate your insights and all of your wisdom, and I really hope to.
Amanda Dieckmann:Speak to you again, thank you so much.
Amanda Dieckmann:This was really fun.
Kate Moore Youssef:I really hope you enjoyed this week's episode.
Kate Moore Youssef:If you did and it resonated with you, I would absolutely love it if you could share share on your platforms or maybe leave a review and a rating wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Kate Moore Youssef:And please do check out my website, ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk for lots of free resources and paid for workshops.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm uploading new things all the time and I would absolutely love to see you there.
Kate Moore Youssef:Take care and see you for the next episode.
