ADHD... Without Medication, With Joseph Pack

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:01

Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:04

I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:17

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:27

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:42

Here's today's episode.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:48

So hi everyone.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:49

Welcome back to another episode of the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:00:53

And I'm delighted to welcome back a guest I had right at the very beginning, actually must have been about two years ago.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:01

His name is Joseph Paak.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:02

I'm just so happy to have him back.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:04

You may know him as the guy, I mean, I know him as the guy on LinkedIn, the founder of Drug Free ADHD.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:11

And I'm so excited to have you back, Joseph, because we spoke, you know, back when I guess we were both newly diagnosed and we were kind of uncovering lots of things for ourselves and we're a few years down the line and you were just telling me, you know, since our last conversation conversation that a lot's changed for you.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:27

So I'm excited to hear more.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:29

Welcome back to the podcast.

Joseph Paak: 00:01:31

Yeah, it's very exciting to be back again.

Joseph Paak: 00:01:34

I've said to you before, I think that that was the first interview I ever did on adhd.

Joseph Paak: 00:01:39

So it's great to come back like full circle now and I love what.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:42

You'Ve done since we, we've spoken because you've really taken your, I guess your core foundational beliefs about managing your own adhd, the drug free method.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:01:53

You embrace modalities such as cold water, breath work, nature movement, working with your brain, working with your energy, morning routines, all things like that, like everything that is just like my, you know, I absolutely love and I know that's why we've got so much synergy between us and you have, I guess made it, you know, you've gone deeper and deeper over these, you know, couple of years.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:02:18

Tell me a little bit about, I guess first of all, I'm going to say to the listeners, if you haven't listened to the initial episode, I'm going to go back and put it in the show notes.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:02:26

So if you really want to hear Joseph's background, understand, you know, what led him to his ADHD diagnosis, the health crisis that, you know, helped him sort of change the way his whole lifestyle was.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:02:38

Go back and listen to the initial episode.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:02:40

But I guess I want to ask you what is different in your life now, you know, over these past couple of years since we last spoke?

Joseph Paak: 00:02:48

Well, to begin with, I think there are many days where I struggle to find where ADHD even is in me and I'll get into.

Joseph Paak: 00:02:58

I find myself getting lulled into a false sense of security though.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:01

I feel like it's gone.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:02

And then what I'm saying here is I'm talking about the negative traits of adhd, so impulsivity.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:08

In fact, I genuinely don't remember the last time I did anything impulsive.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:13

It must be over a year ago, easily.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:03:18

And to just contrast that beforehand.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:03:22

Yeah, there was a lot.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:23

diagnosed with ADHD, which is: 2017

Joseph Paak: 00:03:32

2017.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:32

In early: 2016

Joseph Paak: 00:03:42

And I was a 26 year old man at the time.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:44

I shouldn't be doing something, I mean no one should be doing something so ridiculous.

Joseph Paak: 00:03:47

But just to give an indication of the level of impulsivity and the seeking of excitement and danger that was present within me as a teenager and then as a into my mid-20s was just, it was obscene.

Joseph Paak: 00:04:03

So to be the way I am now as just is a shock to me.

Joseph Paak: 00:04:06

And it's actually only, I suppose in interviews like this where I start to actually think deeply about how much I've changed.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:04:13

Something that you do very well is you curate a lifestyle, a daily lifestyle.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:04:21

And I know no one's perfect and I know people can, you know, depending on whether we slept well that night and all different variables.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:04:27

But I know that you are a big proponent of a morning routine and I just wondered when did you get that awareness to kind of think, you know, what if my morning starts well, then there's a knock on effect and maybe we can have a little chat about your morning routine and see how the listeners might be able to, you know, take some of those things and apply them to their morning.

Joseph Paak: 00:04:50

Yeah, yeah.

Joseph Paak: 00:04:51

So yeah, a morning routine is like you say, it's absolutely essential because we start the day off on the right footing.

Joseph Paak: 00:05:00

And for me that is doing something hard, doing something that is that where There is a lot of resistance built up inside.

Joseph Paak: 00:05:07

So that could be getting into an ice bath or more regularly for me is getting in a cold shower.

Joseph Paak: 00:05:15

So I'll usually get in the cold shower, finish the cold shower, then I'll do some exercises to warm my body back up again, then I'll walk straight into my office and do meditation and breathing.

Joseph Paak: 00:05:27

I run a meditation accountability group at 7:30am every single day.

Joseph Paak: 00:05:32

So 365 days a year, and that is 25 or 30 people on it this morning, all with ADHD, all that have learned to meditate, that all do it almost every single morning.

Joseph Paak: 00:05:44

People are very consistent with it.

Joseph Paak: 00:05:46

And what that entire routine is doing is it's I walk into the bathroom and I see the shower and all I want is a hot shower, but if I take the cold shower, I've done something I don't want to do, which is very, very important.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:01

And I have a poster on my wall back there.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:03

I don't think you can see it.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:04

It says the Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:09

And what that is.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:10

It's the first line of the Third Zen Patriarch, a poem from the 12th century, the Zen Buddhist poem.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:16

And the whole point of the poem is that basically the reverse of that for people who have strict preferences for how they want their life to go, they will suffer.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:26

Now this goes all the way back to Buddha.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:29

When you look at his noble truths, the first two noble truths, number one, all of life is suffering.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:35

Number two, all suffering is caused by desire.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:39

Well, desire is another word for preference.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:44

If you flip that on its head, instead of saying no preferences, you could say the great way.

Joseph Paak: 00:06:51

And that means enlightenment, which is not what we're necessarily aiming for, but at least complete contentment, peace, happiness, whatever you want to call it, isn't difficult for those who prefer everything.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:02

What does that mean?

Joseph Paak: 00:07:03

Just means if you can go through your life being open to every event, then life will become easy, genuinely easy, because you're not trying to control what other people say.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:17

You're not trying to control what other people do.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:19

You're not trying to control what happens to your outcomes.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:22

Life becomes easy.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:23

Okay, why is that important for a morning routine?

Joseph Paak: 00:07:26

And why is that particularly important for a cold shower?

Joseph Paak: 00:07:29

I don't want to get even to this day, I don't.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:30

I'm not going to lie, I do not want to get in that cold shower.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:33

I've been doing it for years.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:34

But I do it because it builds grit, determination for the rest of the day.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:39

I'm Beginning my day by doing something that I don't want to do.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:44

I have a preference to not do it.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:45

I'm breaking that barrier.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:47

And then once I've done that, I then go and do breathing and meditation.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:51

So then I'm, I'm so ready for the day at that point.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:54

This is key.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:56

But of course, building a morning routine isn't easy.

Joseph Paak: 00:07:59

So we have to take, we have to do that steadily.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:02

So you can't just go start tomorrow going, I'm gonna.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:05

This is what people with ADHD will do all the time.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:07

Right.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:07

I'm having a cold shower, I'm gonna breathe, I'm gonna do meditation.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:09

No, I absolutely do not recommend doing that because it will last a few days and then you'll hate it.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:14

You won't want to do it anymore.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:08:15

So you're saying that we just, we start with just the one thing and we do that for a few days?

Joseph Paak: 00:08:22

30 days most likely is probably best.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:08:25

Yeah.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:08:25

And would you recommend if someone struggles with that cold shower, to say, right, if you have a warm shower and then you turn it down and do the last 30 seconds cold and then kind of like build up to that until you can just have the cold shower.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:39

Yeah, normal hot shower, just as you always would, then you say, yeah, 30 seconds, even less.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:48

20 seconds is probably okay the first time you do it, maybe even for the first week before you're about to turn to cold, start breathing a little bit more deeply.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:55

Just start getting the breath ready for the cold that's about to hit your body.

Joseph Paak: 00:08:59

And then when you're ready, just turn it fully to cold, no hesitation, and just rinse the whole body as quickly as possible, then get out and then get the towel wrapped around your body.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:13

So what you're saying, I can handle the cold water.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:17

That to me is like, I can do that.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:18

But when you say to me, 7:30 meditation, there was something in my body that just was like, that was, there was resistance there.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:26

Like massive resistance.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:27

Because for me, 7:30 in the morning is bus, kids, breakfast.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:33

It's just like an adrenaline fueled kind of half an hour, 45 minutes.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:38

And I don't have time, or I say to myself, I don't have time to meditate at half seven in the morning.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:43

I could meditate at half six in the morning for sure, but I choose not to.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:48

And I'm going to put, you know, my hands up here that I struggle with my phone because I'll turn it on, off airplane mode quickly.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:56

You know, see?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:57

Da, da, da da.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:09:57

And I have to use so much self restraint and kind of strength to then not go into the depths of Instagram and reply to messages.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:10:08

And before I know it, I'm just like, my brain's just been so sucked into that horrendous social media juggernaut.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:10:14

So I'm really interested to know what type of meditation you advocate for ADHD people.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:10:20

Because if someone can say, right, I can do this meditation, I just can't do it at half seven.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:10:25

Where do people start with ADHD friendly meditation?

Joseph Paak: 00:10:28

Well, the interesting thing about what you've just said there is that if we meditate a lot, say every day, once a day is enough, but twice a day would be fantastic.

Joseph Paak: 00:10:39

We develop awareness, more deeper awareness.

Joseph Paak: 00:10:45

And as our attention span increases and our awareness increases, because it's not, it's not just because you could have a.

Joseph Paak: 00:10:54

I mean, I historically have had a very good attention span.

Joseph Paak: 00:10:59

That's never been my issue.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:00

I've always been able to focus on things.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:02

I've just focused on the wrong things for eight hours solid and then not got what I was supposed to get done.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:09

So attention isn't enough.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:10

We also need awareness, the awareness spot that we're doing something we shouldn't be doing and break out of it, which is like for example, scrolling through Instagram as an example meditation.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:21

This type of meditation I'm about to talk about will build that awareness.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:26

So you could be 30 seconds into it, scrolling through Instagram and go, oh, you catch yourself.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:31

Okay, I'm going to just put it down.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:33

You feel the discomfort in the body of putting it down because really you want to keep scrolling.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:37

And then you just sit with that discomfort for a minute or so and then it will go away on its own, but it only goes away on its own by doing nothing about it.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:44

Okay, we can come back to that.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:46

So the technique to get you there again, I understand why it's difficult to meditate at 7:30am every single day if you want to do it in your own time.

Joseph Paak: 00:11:56

Meditation is really very simple, is all about creating an object of attention.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:02

So in lots of Buddhist types of meditation, you'll focus on your breath.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:08

So and sometimes it can be very subtle, like you actually focusing on the breath as it touches your upper lip.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:13

It's like an extremely subtle sensation.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:16

Some types of meditation, people will hold beads and run them through their fingers.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:19

So they're just concentrating on that feeling of the beads running through the fingers.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:23

Other types of meditation, again, people will light a candle and they'll just stare at the flame flickering again.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:29

It's all about all three of those are different objects of attention.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:33

Well, with ADHD that's quite difficult because the mind is so frantic.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:38

It's incessant chatter that by using an object of attention that is not mind, is not in the mind, it gives the incessant mind chance to just go more crazy, really.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:53

So the antidote to that is to use a mantra instead.

Joseph Paak: 00:12:56

And a very specific type of mantra, because that's another thought.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:00

So actually a mantra is just giving the busy mind something to compete with.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:06

And another mistake I think that a lot of people think about meditation is that it's about having an empty mind.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:15

It's about clearing your thoughts.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:17

No, that is a recipe for disaster.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:19

It's never going to happen.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:20

And in fact, I would say that with most neurotypical people, they're not even achieving that, that empty mind state.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:27

Empty mind is something that's reserved for the Buddha or for a Buddha, which would be an enlightened person.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:33

And that's not to say that any, you know, some people listen to this may one day get there.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:37

They may one day it's available to everybody.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:40

Forget quieting thoughts completely like they are not present in this ADHD friendly meditation.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:47

So basically we repeat this mantra and you could just use something as simple as, I can handle this, I can handle this, I can handle this, I can handle this.

Joseph Paak: 00:13:56

Repeating that silently in your head at the same time as you are willfully repeating those words and the busy mind will kick in.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:06

Oh, this is boring.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:08

Oh, I really don't want to be doing this.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:09

Oh, I've got to get the kids here.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:10

Oh, I forgot to do this.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:11

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:14

Continue repeating the mantra.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:16

Keep doing it.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:17

Don't try and make those thoughts stop.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:19

Every time you notice that you're being pulled into the busy mind, just acknowledge that's happened and gently guide yourself back to the mantra.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:27

You may have to do this 30, 40 times in one meditation session.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:31

Each time you do it is like a bicep curl for your awareness, a bicep curl for your attention.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:36

Keep doing that every single day.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:38

In a month it might be 15 times that you get dragged into automatic thoughts.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:45

It will never be zero.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:46

There's always going to be some chatter going on in the background.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:50

In fact, the mind can chatter for the whole meditation session so long as the mantra doesn't stop and you will still get huge benefits from it.

Joseph Paak: 00:14:59

So, but if you keep doing this again, say for six months or more, and you're very consistent, all of a sudden a shift Occurs you who are in there aware of the busy mind, is now further away from their busy mind than you were six months ago.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:17

So it doesn't matter what it says.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:19

You know, it's not you.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:20

And you don't take anything it's saying seriously.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:22

In fact, things that used to upset you now make you laugh, literally laugh out loud.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:27

I've been just walking down the street and laughed my head off at the things it says.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:30

To me, that's a turning point.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:33

That's a realization that, in fact, does that mind ever need to be quiet?

Joseph Paak: 00:15:37

And in fact, I've heard some genuine enlightened yogi masters say that their voice in their head is still not quiet, but they're enlightened.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:45

But the reason they're enlightened and I'm not is because they know definitively that the voice in their head is not them.

Joseph Paak: 00:15:53

It's just a passenger that lives with them.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:15:56

Basically, they've had that opportunity through the meditation to detach from the mind that we have been conditioned to believe is true and is part of us and to not.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:16:08

Not have any separation from.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:16:10

So we've just believed that everything that we hear and think is the truth.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:16:14

It's the absolute truth.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:16:16

And.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:16:16

And from what I understand and know from meditation, from my own experience, is that we can have that detachment and we can question it and get curious, like, as to.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:16:25

You know.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:16:25

And like you say, we can start kind of going, I'm not sure that's true.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:18:47

I want to go and go really practical with your meditation, because first of all, it's amazing.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:18:52

Are we sitting down?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:18:53

Lying down, stood up?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:18:55

Can we move, like you say, can we have something in hands?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:18:59

Like, what are the rules?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:19:00

Are there rules?

Joseph Paak: 00:19:01

No.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:01

Well, sitting down on a chair is fine.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:04

Sitting down on a chair, backs of your hands on your laps, palms facing the ceiling.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:08

Why would we do that?

Joseph Paak: 00:19:09

Two reasons.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:10

One, it opens the chest, so immediately means it makes the breathing deeper just automatically.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:15

But the other thing is it's an open posture.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:17

You know, like if you closed off, you know, you feel a bit down, you close immediately.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:21

You just feel yourself closed.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:23

You can just turn your palms over so your palms facing the ceiling stay open like this.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:30

No matter how uncomfortable it is.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:32

It's just like you're being more receptive to the experience.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:35

It makes a.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:36

Seems like nothing, but it makes a massive difference.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:40

And having your spine very straight with your arms relaxed makes a huge, huge difference.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:45

Raise your chin.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:45

Feet on the floor, Feet on the floor.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:47

You can do it.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:48

Cross leg, leg if you want I don't, I don't think you need to, but you can.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:51

That just depends.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:52

Whatever you feel like.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:54

So either sitting on the floor cross legged or sitting on a chair.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:57

But don't do it standing up, don't do it walking around.

Joseph Paak: 00:19:59

You want to be completely still.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:20:02

And how long would, if someone's saying, right, I can do this and like, where would you say, what are the benefits?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:20:08

Can you do it for five minutes and get a benefit?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:20:11

Like, what's the kind of, the optimum length?

Joseph Paak: 00:20:14

We do 15 minutes on the meditation session in the morning, that's fine.

Joseph Paak: 00:20:17

I think 15 minutes is probably optimum.

Joseph Paak: 00:20:20

You can go much longer if you want.

Joseph Paak: 00:20:22

I think I found that the first seven or eight minutes are a settling of the mind.

Joseph Paak: 00:20:28

Like it's really busy.

Joseph Paak: 00:20:29

But when I get into like the last six and a half minutes, I'm really settled.

Joseph Paak: 00:20:33

In the last three or four minutes I can be getting to the point where there's really nothing going on in there.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:20:39

So do you think changing our daily routine and even starting from our morning routine can take us from that place where everything just feels chaotic and out of control to like what you said, where you said, actually you're not quite sure where your ADHD is now?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:20:56

It feels like you're not being driven by all these impulses.

Joseph Paak: 00:21:01

Well, the morning routine is like a circuit breaker really.

Joseph Paak: 00:21:05

It's the perfect place to begin if you're really not doing too well right now.

Joseph Paak: 00:21:12

And there could be a myriad of reasons why you're not doing well, but let's say perhaps you're very, very impulsive, you're drained, perhaps experience burnout from a job or something like that, but you're not doing any of these things like meditation or breathing or eating well or exercise or whatever it might be.

Joseph Paak: 00:21:33

Selecting one very, very simple thing to do tomorrow morning could be the like laying the foundations for building the next chapter of your life.

Joseph Paak: 00:21:46

Which is why I recommend picking something very small.

Joseph Paak: 00:21:50

Like I would genuinely, if you want my advice directly for almost anyone here, is do 15 to 20 seconds cold water at the end of a hot shower tomorrow morning and don't worry about doing anything other than that for a month, 30 days.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:07

So start off with 20 seconds.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:09

When you're comfortable with that, go to 30 and 40, 50, 60, keep going up, aim for about two minutes in cold by the end of the month.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:18

By the time you get to the end of that month, you'll feel quite different.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:23

You'll have gone from a person who would think, well, I'm never going to have a cold shower to someone who's actually enjoying it.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:29

I tell you, when you get, you know, almost everybody who gets to two, two and a half minutes in a cold shower, they say they really enjoy the process, that they still hate getting in.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:38

It's a funny thing.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:39

The first 10 to 15 seconds is brutal, always brutal.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:43

A minute in, you are alive.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:45

And then after two or three minutes, someone's just come and turn the lights on.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:50

The entire, like the entire room changes.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:54

Everything changes.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:56

What.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:57

So that's why I recommend cold.

Joseph Paak: 00:22:58

And it will then make it so much easier then for the next month to bring something else in which I would recommend breathing.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:04

Because breathing techniques, something like, you can go and Google this parasympathetic breathing, where the only thing that matters is the exhale is significantly longer than the inhale.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:15

And what that will do is it will reduce your heart rate, reduce your blood pressure and reduce your cortisol, cortisol being stress hormone.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:23

And you'll realize I've just done two things that have completely changed the way I feel.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:29

And I didn't have to ask anyone's permission to do these things.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:33

They didn't cost me anything.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:34

It's all completely in my power and I'm now taking full control.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:39

So then you start to get all these side benefits coming in.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:43

Like, I can do this, I'm in control, I can handle this.

Joseph Paak: 00:23:49

And yeah, it's a game changer.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:23:54

I mean, what you say then about, yeah, I can handle this, because we, I'm going to speak sort of collectively here, that many of us feel like we've been derailed by our undiagnosed adhd.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:06

And we've had a lot of self criticism and shame and guilt and blame and all of that thinking that we had.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:14

We should have been able to control this.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:16

Like, we should have been able to do better, be better.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:20

And we, I've got, had personality, you know, defects and flaws.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:25

And then they get the diagnosis or they get the awareness and go, okay, so now it's adhd.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:28

I can understand what ADHD is like, how it shows up and manifests.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:32

And then we're able to bring in these tools that you're talking about to enable us to have even more awareness and to start noticing.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:40

And it's, it's kind of giving ourselves that confidence, isn't it, of going, actually, I do know what's best.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:46

And maybe with the cold shower that kind of ignites it a little bit.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:50

That gives us, like you say, that grit and that resilience to say, actually, I'M not as defective as I thought I was.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:24:56

I'm not as, as terrible and all over the place and disorganized, whatever we want to call ourselves.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:25:02

Like, I actually do have ways and options, like you say, that are free, that I don't have to go to a therapist.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:25:10

I don't have to pay loads of money for a course.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:25:12

Like, I can do this.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:25:13

That's incredibly empowering, isn't it?

Joseph Paak: 00:25:15

Big time.

Joseph Paak: 00:25:16

And even got to the point lately, I mean, maybe six months ago where I said to my wife, and this was my decision, not hers, I'm now no longer going to or allowed to use ADHD as a reason why I've done something now that was a big thing because I've been defaulting again and again and again and again, saying, I made that mistake because I've got adhd.

Joseph Paak: 00:25:38

I did this wrong because I've got adhd.

Joseph Paak: 00:25:39

I missed this appointment because I've got adhd.

Joseph Paak: 00:25:41

You know, that might actually be the reason why I was doing those things.

Joseph Paak: 00:25:46

But it got to a point where I was so aware of it.

Joseph Paak: 00:25:50

I was so aware, like, I knew I was starting to default back to the comfort zone of using ADHD as the reason why it wasn't happening.

Joseph Paak: 00:25:59

I said to her, look, I'm still probably going to make some of these mistakes, but I promise you, I am never going to use ADHD as a reason.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:06

And you are allowed to tell me off if I do for my own good, not for hers.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:11

And since I stopped doing that, I think that's probably when I started to disconnect from that ADHD diagnosis.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:18

And I was a bit like, I don't even know where it is anymore.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:22

It was like.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:23

And that's, that's where we can get to.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:27

I'm convinced of that because, oh, my God, I can't even tell you how different I was.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:30

I can't tell you how different I was.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:32

It's interesting, isn't it?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:33

Because, like, immediately I'm kind of like, am I triggered by that?

Joseph Paak: 00:26:36

I know, I get it.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:36

What does that mean?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:38

Because we've probably, like had many, many years of our life not understanding why we've done certain things.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:44

Then we get the ADHD diagnosis.

Joseph Paak: 00:26:47

It's.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:48

It's an explanation.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:49

It gives us some self compassion.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:50

It allows us to forgive ourselves for lots of things.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:54

But I really do agree with you, Joseph, that, you know, I try very hard for myself.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:26:59

Like, don't fall into this victimhood mentality.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:27:02

And also with my clients, like, I don't want you to start Feeling that you now have ADHD as something that you can just use for everything.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:27:11

And that's why I love these empowering conversations where you've got real practical strategies that we can lean into to improve and help ourselves thrive, because there's no reason why we can't thrive and live much better lives knowing now that we've got ADHD and, you know, using things like the breathwork, using the cold water, and the meditation of lessening the impact maybe that our ADHD has in our life.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:27:37

I wonder what you.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:27:38

You know how we said at the beginning of our conversation where you said you're not quite even sure where your adhd, like you've kind of disentangled or maybe just accepted that you are just who you are and your brain just is the way it is.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:27:53

Maybe you can explain.

Joseph Paak: 00:27:54

Well, first thing I'll just quickly say is I would never have got to this point if I hadn't been diagnosed.

Joseph Paak: 00:27:59

Yeah, I would.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:00

Who knows where I'd be?

Joseph Paak: 00:28:01

It's impossible to say.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:02

But the diagnosis put me on a trajectory to this point.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:10

My wife on the next point.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:12

My wife and I talk about this a lot.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:14

I feel genuinely continuously disconnected from the ADHD diagnosis.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:18

If we think about it as a disorder of attention, of hyperactivity, I don't have either of those issues anymore.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:28

However, what we also say to each other is, I'm neurodivergent.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:32

I am neurodivergent.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:34

So there's no doubt about that.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:35

I mean, I think even the way I ended up getting to this point today, the obsession with meditation, the obsession with learning about all the yogis from history, studying stoicism, like we're talking about the history of Peloponnesian War, all this kind of thing, that is a.

Joseph Paak: 00:28:52

It's just a seeing the world in a very different way to the average person that I meet, which sometimes and quite often still to this day, makes me feel an outsider, even in my own friendship group.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:05

But the difference between me now and a decade ago is I'm very comfortable with that.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:09

A decade ago, I was pretending to be like them, getting myself in all sorts of problems because I'd make jokes that weren't funny or were a little bit too harsh or whatever, because I never really understood the boundaries of it.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:19

Now I'm just like, look, I don't really fully get what they're talking about.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:23

This just sounds boring and mundane to me.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:25

But they're good people, and I'm an outsider, and they know that, and I'm okay with it.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:29

And that There was a bit in because we spoke about Michael Singer on the last interview we did, because I know you like him too.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:37

And there's a thing he said where he's like, meditation is really important, but what matters a thousand times more is what you do when you're not meditating.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:45

And I thought about that for about a year.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:47

Like, what does he mean?

Joseph Paak: 00:29:48

And I realized about maybe 18 months ago what he's saying is if you meditate in the morning, you sort of center yourself so you're calmer.

Joseph Paak: 00:29:58

Then you come out of the meditation and then all of a sudden life slaps you in the face.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:02

You know, the kids are misbehaving, maybe they're going to be late for school.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:05

There are things with work that aren't going so well, blah, blah, blah.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:09

All these things are very uncomfortable.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:11

Can we handle those?

Joseph Paak: 00:30:12

Can we let go of our attachment to how they should be?

Joseph Paak: 00:30:15

Can we have fewer preferences about how they should be?

Joseph Paak: 00:30:18

If we can continually do that, every single day we do what he calls surrender.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:24

He talks about it in the Surrender experiment.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:27

And all of a sudden we just change.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:30

It's very difficult to explain, but we just.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:34

It's.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:34

It's like I don't even want to use the word stronger.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:39

I don't think that's it at all.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:40

I don't even think the word resilient is right.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:43

It's almost like we become antifragile.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:46

It's like this is a word that I'd.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:47

Well, word coined by Nassim Taleb.

Joseph Paak: 00:30:51

And what he meant was that in nature there are things that grow from stress.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:02

So in a man made structure will never grow under stress.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:07

So even like a picture, like the strongest bridge you could ever imagine, a huge bridge that is an extremely robust structure, but it will break under the right pressure.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:16

So if a bomb hits it, for example, it will just break and it will.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:19

Yeah, but even under some stress it won't get stronger.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:23

The human body gets stronger under stress.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:25

Look at weightlifters.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:26

They tear their muscle and it builds the muscle up.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:30

The exact same thing happens to our psyche.

Joseph Paak: 00:31:33

And that's where ice baths, breathing, meditation and surrendering, letting go of our initial reaction to things in the middle of the day help us get stronger.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:31:46

Yeah, and I think about post traumatic growth, we talk about PTSD a lot.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:31:52

But actually the post traumatic growth is where you see these amazing people who move of the most horrific situations.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:00

And they are the ones that are inspiring and leading people and their resilience and their inner strength is helping people navigate much less Traumatic things.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:11

So, yeah, I love that.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:12

I think it's so important to recognize, like, how strong we are as humans and how.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:18

How much stronger we can be if we do things.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:23

It's literally the meditation.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:25

I keep thinking about this meditation.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:27

Actually.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:27

I've never looked forward to meditation before.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:30

The only time I enjoy meditation is when I'm maybe doing some yoga and the Shavasana at the end.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:35

And I can.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:36

I won't even call it a meditation.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:37

I just quite enjoy, like, the feeling of the stillness.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:40

But I'm actually going to tomorrow morning and I'm going to do this.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:43

I'm going to find my mantra and I'm going to give myself not even.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:47

I'm going to do three minutes.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:49

I know you said 15 minutes, but for me, if I went straight into 15 minutes, I would find that really, really tricky.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:32:55

So I'm going to try three minutes and I'm going to see, you know, if anybody else who's listening to this and you want to message me and say, I'm going to try the three minutes as well.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:33:05

Can we just get back to the mantra?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:33:07

I like details.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:33:08

I like.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:33:08

I like to just understand things.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:10

I can see that.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:11

That's good.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:33:12

Yeah.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:33:13

Can we choose anything that works for us?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:33:16

Is there something specific that works with our brain that's better?

Joseph Paak: 00:33:22

I usually give beginners.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:24

I can handle this.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:25

I can handle this.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:26

I can handle this.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:27

But that's not a spiritual mantra.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:29

So a spiritual mantra needs to have some vibratory quality to it.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:35

All spiritual mantras have some vibratory qualities to them.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:39

So the mantra that I usually give.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:40

And you need to be careful with this because this can sometimes be very uncomfortable for some people.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:45

Some people can feel a little bit sick doing it.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:47

Some people can feel a bit dizzy.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:48

You know, maybe 5% of people will feel a bit sick or dizzy.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:52

And sometimes it can sort of agitate discomfort in the body.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:56

There's some like.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:57

Like blocked trauma or something.

Joseph Paak: 00:33:59

It can agitate that.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:00

So be careful.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:01

But it's basically a mantra you repeat silently in your head.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:06

And I'll repeat it now.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:07

Sounds a bit weird, but it's the sound.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:10

I am.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:11

I am like this.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:13

I am like that.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:21

So it's.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:21

It's like a chanting.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:22

Yeah, but you're chanting it silently.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:26

You hear the voice in your head saying it.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:29

Okay.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:29

Because normally it's that when you say the vibratory.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:32

Because I do a bit of chanting through yoga and it does something.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:38

I feel like it's like a cellular shift or something on the.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:42

When you can hear it.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:34:44

So I mean, could you chant it out loud?

Joseph Paak: 00:34:47

You could, but I would use an OM chant for that.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:50

So like, if you do an I am, what you're trying to do is create a very, very subtle object of attention and you'll be.

Joseph Paak: 00:34:57

What you'll feel is like with an om chant, like an O, the ah is in the throat, the is in the chest, and the M is in the belly.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:07

So it's vibrating like the chakras basically.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:12

And it makes you.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:13

That's why you have this cellular.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:14

You just feel so unbelievably calm and like vibrant when you do that.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:19

Yeah.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:19

So that's one thing that can be done.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:21

And I do do that quite regularly.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:24

That the I am mantra is an even subtler that goes to a deeper part of you.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:30

And because it's so subtle, it can send you into these.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:37

I mean, the only way I can describe it to a person who hasn't experienced it, it is the feeling just between awake and asleep.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:48

So you are awake, you're awake, you're aware that the mind shuts down.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:55

Now the interest.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:56

We're going very deep with what I'm about to say next.

Joseph Paak: 00:35:58

So thing is, if the mind shuts down but you're still there, then you start to realize that the mind is an inessential part of you.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:10

The only thing that's essential is awareness.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:14

And when that happens to you for the first time, you will never be the same again, ever.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:21

Because you realize, I love this.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:22

I've been taking advice from a crazy person, which was the voice in my head.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:27

And actually I'm not even that voice.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:29

I'm something else altogether.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:31

And actually that voice isn't essential to me.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:33

It's all.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:33

Don't even really need it to be there.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:35

So again, I am, I am like nice and long, focusing your attention on it, not worrying about the busy mind.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:43

And I can do whatever it wants because remember, it's not you.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:46

See, because it's not you.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:47

You also really have no right to tell it what to do.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:50

You have no right to make it shush.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:52

You have no right to even make it say nice things.

Joseph Paak: 00:36:55

In fact, that would be fighting with the mind, which every single yogi ever has warned against.

Joseph Paak: 00:37:04

They say never, ever, ever fight the mind.

Joseph Paak: 00:37:08

And what they mean by that is we don't want to try and make the mind say nice things.

Joseph Paak: 00:37:13

We want to turn our attention away from the mind so it learns that we're not interested in what it's got to say.

Joseph Paak: 00:37:19

And then funnily enough, it will start to say nicer things to us.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:37:25

So when we've done this, you know, we've spent say an hour doing the different things in our morning, we're feeling less reactive, we're feeling a bit stronger, a bit like more resilient.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:37:39

We feel like we have kind of reclaimed a bit of, I don't even know, controls the word.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:37:44

We are recognizing.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:37:45

Yeah, we've gained awareness.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:37:47

We're recognizing that we don't need to listen to like you say, the mind because very often it can spew all sorts of crazy things.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:37:55

You know, with imposter syndrome and telling us that we're not good enough and con parasitis and with anxiety and all that.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:38:03

So this is what I'm trying to say is like if we suffer from that every single day, this little bit of our morning routine can really have a knock on effect on it for the rest of the day.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:38:13

Are you doing anything else the rest of your day that is profound as your morning routine?

Joseph Paak: 00:38:18

Yeah, yeah.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:19

Well, you just mentioned that imposter syndrome.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:22

What did you say?

Joseph Paak: 00:38:22

What was the other thing?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:38:23

Compare, comparison, comparisonitis.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:27

Whatever else you want to call these things.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:30

Each one of those is mind.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:33

So each one of those is the mind.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:35

Every single bit of it.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:36

So therefore, if I'm not mind, like we solve the problem of all those things in one by then identifying with awareness rather than mind itself.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:46

So we begin our day to like disconnecting from the bit that's causing the problem.

Joseph Paak: 00:38:53

And then of course the day then begins and then we, we hit challenges and the voice comes back and the comparisons come back and the everything imposter syndrome comes back again.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:03

So I do things like I just do perspective shifts quite a lot.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:07

So like before this podcasts began, I got into a habit of doing this with all podcasts and all calls.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:13

I'll just quickly imagine myself as a tiny little speck on earth and think about that there are 8 billion other people all trying to do things and I'll try like zoom my awareness out again and look at the earth just as this little marble in space, that kind of thing.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:30

So it's just like a total.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:31

Why would I do that?

Joseph Paak: 00:39:32

Because then I'm not thinking about myself.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:33

It's just, it's just as simple as that.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:35

There's nothing more complicated about it, just about not thinking about myself.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:38

I'll do breathing all day.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:41

Even during this podcast I've been doing it.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:43

Just a breath in, nice long breath out, just one is fine.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:51

Things like that.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:54

And then there's a.

Joseph Paak: 00:39:57

This Is very hard to explain.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:00

But for anyone listening, you've probably looked in the mirror today, right?

Joseph Paak: 00:40:05

So when you looked in the mirror, you saw your face, you saw your body wearing clothes, whatever.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:09

And it was, it was today.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:11

You saw that image today.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:13

Ten years ago you looked in the mirror and you would have seen a different face, a younger face.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:19

You'd have seen different clothes, a younger body.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:22

Maybe you were in a different room, maybe the room was decorated differently.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:26

When you were 10, you looked in the mirror and you saw a 10 year old wearing 10 year old's clothes in a 10 year old's bedroom.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:35

Three different humans, but the one who was looking in the mirror is exactly the same.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:45

The same person is looking in the mirror, but they're looking at a different body.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:53

Go to that place within you.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:55

Go to the one who is looking in the mirror.

Joseph Paak: 00:40:59

So I'll even do this in the middle of coaching calls with people if I can.

Joseph Paak: 00:41:03

If I notice my mind's getting distracted by some personal stuff that's not important and certainly isn't important for the client, I'll just quickly recognize, go to the one who's looking in the mirror.

Joseph Paak: 00:41:13

I'll even like say that to myself.

Joseph Paak: 00:41:15

Do you understand?

Joseph Paak: 00:41:16

This is really like weird, but do you know what I'm talking about?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:41:20

Is it trying to help you?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:41:23

I mean, the way I'm kind of like analyzing it is that first of all, we all evolve and we all shift and we change.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:41:30

And that person, that version of me 10 years ago, 20 years ago, is an evolved version.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:41:35

But also it's allowing me to recognize that I'm not, I'm not that person.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:41:45

So I don't have to align to that, that version of me.

Joseph Paak: 00:41:50

It goes even deeper than that.

Joseph Paak: 00:41:52

It's that we who are aware.

Joseph Paak: 00:41:56

The one that's aware of the voice speaking.

Joseph Paak: 00:41:59

The one who's aware of the voice speaking.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:42:02

Okay, you can hear.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:04

So if you say hello in your head five times now, you can hear that?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:42:10

Yeah.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:11

So how do you know you could hear it?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:42:13

Because I could.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:42:15

Because it was me.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:16

Because you're in there.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:17

Yeah.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:17

Because that, that could hear it isn't any different at all from the one who could hear it 10 years ago or the one who could hear it at 10 years old.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:26

What it's aware of has completely changed.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:31

But we as human beings identify too much with the bit that's changed and not enough with a bit that doesn't change.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:40

This is we.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:41

This is such an extremely deep subject that we can't go into in this short period.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:46

Of time.

Joseph Paak: 00:42:46

But for anyone who happens to be interested in this, go and search for Rupert Spira s P I R A on YouTube and go and watch some of his videos talking about this.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:42:59

I think what you do is brilliant, Joseph, because you are.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:04

I would say you're an ADHD philosopher.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:06

I feel that you bring in these big concepts and help us connect the dots into why we have the brains that we do, the wiring that we do.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:16

Because we're divergent thinkers.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:18

We are.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:19

And we don't want to do what we're told to do and we see things differently and it's okay for us to do that.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:26

Like you say, when you're around your friends and they're talking about different things and you kind of recognize they're good people, but actually you want to do and think differently.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:34

And so we should.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:35

And we should be able to express that.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:37

And I think there's going to be a lot of people listening today who kind of think, I want more of this.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:42

I really love these, these big conversations and these philosophies and bringing these kind of.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:48

I would say, yeah, they are philosophies to my.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:50

To my daily life.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:51

How can someone join your meditation group?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:54

How can someone work with you?

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:43:56

Let's direct people to the best ways for you.

Joseph Paak: 00:43:59

Right now the best thing to do is just go to drug free adhd.org and then on the homepage you'll be able to subscribe to my newsletter.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:07

And in my newsletter every week there'll be a link to join something like the meditation group or have one to one coaching with me or come to a retreat or workshop or something like that.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:18

Definitely the best way to do it.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:20

And you can also have a search round on the website anyway for other things that you might want to do.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:24

Like for example, join the meditation group now.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:44:26

And last question.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:44:28

Because I think people will be asking this.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:44:30

Can they work with you if they do take medication?

Joseph Paak: 00:44:33

They can, but the re.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:35

But most people come to me to get off of medication.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:44:38

Okay.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:39

But they can work with me.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:40

The only thing that's a little bit of a concern is cold exposure because it's certainly an ice bath.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:45

I would not recommend getting in an ice bath on medication.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:44:49

Okay.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:50

Because that's really powerful.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:51

Blood pressure's already raised you putting yourself at risk.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:54

Got quite serious risk.

Joseph Paak: 00:44:55

So just be careful that you definitely want to speak to your doctor.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:44:59

Yeah, I think what you do is brilliant, Joseph.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:01

I'm so happy that we had this, this second chat.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:04

I feel like we'll always keep coming back and then chatting and kind of evolving even further.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:09

I want to come and do one of your retreats so we can talk about that.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:12

And yeah, thank you so much for sharing all your big thoughts and very practical, helpful strategies.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:20

It's great to have you back.

Joseph Paak: 00:45:22

My absolute pleasure.

Joseph Paak: 00:45:23

Thank you so much.

Joseph Paak: 00:45:24

It was great fun.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:27

If you've enjoyed today's episode, I invite you to check out my brand new subscription podcast called the Toolkit.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:33

Now this is where I'm going to be opening up my entire library.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:38

My vault of information from over the years, my workshops, webinars and courses, my conversations with experts about hormones, nutrition, lifestyle and bringing brand new up to date content from global experts.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:45:52

This is going to be an amazing resource for you to support you and guide you even more on more niche topics and conversations so you can really thrive and learn to live your best life with adhd.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:46:04

I'm so excited about this.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:46:05

Please just check out it's the Toolkit on Apple Podcast and you get a free trial.

Kate Moore Youssef: 00:46:11

Really hope to see you there.