Compassionate and Neuro-affirmative Parenting Tips with Justine Graham
đ My new book, The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, is available to preorder here đ
What does it look like to parent neurodivergent children while navigating your own ADHD? In this episode, I sit down with ADHD coach and mum Justine Graham, who brings both lived experience and professional insight to this powerful conversation.
Justine shares how being diagnosed with ADHD after becoming a parent changed her life, and how it shaped her mission to support families to feel understood and regulated in a more compassionate, strengths-based way. We talk about the pressure parents feel, the importance of emotional regulation, and why movement matters more than you think.
Whether youâre raising neurodivergent kids or figuring out your own ADHD path, this episode offers validation, tools, and a big dose of encouragement.
What Youâll Learn:
- What a neuroaffirmative parenting approach looks like in real life
- Why supporting a child with emotional regulation, rather than inflicting discipline, can build a stronger connection
- How movement can be a game-changer for focus and nervous system regulation
- The importance of understanding a child's skill gap vs bad behaviour
- How to support your child without accidentally molly-coddling them
- How to recognise internalised "shoulds" and change the narrative to support your children
- How to manage external pressure and parent in a way that truly supports your child
- Real-life strategies to empower your neurodivergent child (and yourself)
Timestamps:
02:36 â Understanding neuroaffirmative parenting
13:57 â The importance of movement in education
14:33 â Understanding neurodivergence in parenting
22:54 â Understanding skills gaps in parenting neurodivergent children
34:25 â Understanding ADHD in parenting
39:56 â Introducing the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit
Links and Resources:
- Connect with Justine via her website
- Missed our ADHD Womenâs Summer Series? Get the workshops on demand [here].
- Next ADHD Wellbeing Workshop: âCreating More Compassionate and Calmer ADHD Families, Parenting and Relationshipsâ â June 24th @1.30pm. Book [here].
- Preorder my book: The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit [here].
- Join the Waitlist for my new ADHD community-first membership launching in September! Get exclusive founding offers [here].
- Find my popular ADHD webinars and resources on her website [here].
- Follow the podcast on Instagram: @adhd_womenswellbeing_pod
- Follow me on Instagram: @kate_moryoussef
Exclusive Offer for Listeners:
This weekâs episode is proudly sponsored by The Naked Pharmacy!
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Transcript
Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kate Moore Youssef, and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.
Speaker A:After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.
Speaker A:In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings, and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm, and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.
Speaker A:Here's today's episode.
Speaker A:Today we're talking about parenting neurodivergent children.
Speaker A:Children potentially, while we're also neurodivergent ourselves.
Speaker A:It can be a fun, wonderful, but also very challenging, exhausting mix.
Speaker A:And I'm really happy to welcome an expert in this area.
Speaker A:Her name is Justine Graham.
Speaker A:She's based in South Africa, but works worldwide online.
Speaker A:And Justine is a certified ADHD coach with a psychology degree and a background in human centered research and was diagnosed with ADHD after becoming a mum herself.
Speaker A:And she recognized the impact of ADHD coaching had on her life as an adult and how it changed her.
Speaker A:And now she's dedicated to providing parents with neuroaffirmative resources to support their children in a way that truly works for them, empowering kids to recognize their abilities and feel safe enough to ask for the support that they need.
Speaker A:I am so looking forward to diving in and discussing all of this.
Speaker A:So welcome to the podcast, Justine.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:I'm also really looking forward to it.
Speaker A:So I think it's safe to say that a lot of my audience are probably parents.
Speaker A:You know, I would say, and if you're not, I'm really sorry, but potentially this conversation might come in handy at one point, or it's just a really amazing way to get in touch with speaking to other neurodivergent kids or family members and making those.
Speaker A:Those connections, perhaps that we didn't have when we were growing up, because we probably were being parented by at least one neurodivergent parent.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But we didn't have any of this language.
Speaker A:We didn't have any of the awareness, the knowledge and the resources.
Speaker A:And so that's why I'm so happy to have this conversation, because I think we can do better.
Speaker A:I think we are.
Speaker A:We've got more information at our disposal.
Speaker A:We've got more awareness and training.
Speaker A:So can you tell people a little bit about what a neuro affirmative approach is to parenting.
Speaker B:A neuroaffirmative approach can just means that you're meeting someone or a child where they're at and you don't have expectations of what kids should be doing, but you really meet them where they're at and really help them through the struggles that they're facing and support them.
Speaker B:But also in turn you hone into their strengths and their natural abilities.
Speaker B:So it's actually three dimensional.
Speaker B:It's all about working with your child and figuring out what works for them to just make them feel like they belong and also support them in areas where they may not be so confident and they may be struggling with ADHD or neurodivergence.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I think we were just talking before that you are parenting your child whether you know or not if they have a neurodivergent label through this approach.
Speaker A:And to me it sounds like it is just a more compassionate, validating way of parenting.
Speaker A:And you know, I know that there's all sorts of things going, you know, around on the Internet at the moment.
Speaker A:We're like with parenting, you know, or we back in the 80s or you know, maybe 90s when you were brought up, we were just kind of like, oh, go to school.
Speaker A:There was no phones, there was no check ins, it was just kind of like go to school, come home, play outside.
Speaker A:And you know, you were all fine.
Speaker A:But actually were we fine?
Speaker A:Because there was a huge amount of emotional repression that we weren't able to have difficult conversations.
Speaker A:Confrontation was done very sort of aggressively.
Speaker A:There was shouting.
Speaker A:So actually yes, we may have had more kind of physical freedom and maybe a little bit less kind of parental, you know, kind of suffocation.
Speaker A:But we weren't being given the emotional tools that we have now.
Speaker A:And I've got four kids and I'm not still not a parenting expert in any way.
Speaker A:But what I do know is that kids like to be heard, they like to be validated.
Speaker A:They like you when you present, when you're regulated.
Speaker A:And it helps even more if you've got a neurodivergent children.
Speaker A:You have a neurodivergent child.
Speaker A:What are typically are people coming to you for?
Speaker A:Like what kind of help and support do you offer?
Speaker B:There are quite a few things that's quite interesting because I feel like when parents approach me they usually come with requests like their ADHD child is really struggling in a school setting or, or they feel like as a parent they're really struggling to connect with their child and they kind of want to understand how they can better connect with them.
Speaker B:And usually the request is, okay, what strategies can we use?
Speaker B:How can we improve executive function?
Speaker B:Or how can we improve some of the ADHD symptoms kids have?
Speaker B:Where I really start is actually working with parents and kids to really make families understand that your child does not need to be fixed, they're not broken, they just need to work slightly differently.
Speaker B:And it definitely has to do with having a lot of compassion, but it also really has to do with affirming your child and figuring out what their strengths are and as you said, listening to your child and honing in on their interests, especially if they have adhd, because we know that we've got interest driven brains.
Speaker B:And if you have a parent who can identify with that and really motivate you through your interest and what you're passionate about, it can really just boost confidence in a child so that then we can focus on, you know, that executive function support and basically allowing a child to learn what they don't know.
Speaker B:Because basically with adhd, there may be certain skills that you haven't developed at the same pace as your peers and they're teachable and you, you may struggle with them.
Speaker B:But I feel like if there is not that foundation of, or relationship between parent and child of like, you're not broken.
Speaker B:And from there we work on strategies.
Speaker B:So usually people come with, you know, the biggest challenges and problems to solve and we get there.
Speaker B:But it's first really about focusing on a parent's strengths and a child's strengths.
Speaker B:Because a lot of the time parents come to me whether or not they're neurodivergent and they feel like they failed as well.
Speaker B:They feel like they're not good enough.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And then from next year, I'm actually looking at starting to support teams as well and work one on one with them.
Speaker B:Because I sometimes what I've recognized is that, and I think this is also from personal experience, my parents could tell me one thing and I'd be like, I'm not listening to you.
Speaker B:Especially when I was a teenager.
Speaker B:And then someone, an adult that I perhaps looked up to and wasn't so close to everything, they could say exactly the same thing.
Speaker B:And I'd be like, yeah, that actually makes sense.
Speaker B:So I'd love to work one on one with teens as someone who maybe is a little bit more objective and a little bit more removed in that instance.
Speaker B:But at the moment I'm only working with parents and then adults who have ADHD as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think the teen things is massive.
Speaker A:I've had that a few times where I know that whatever I say, my teenager is not going to listen to me.
Speaker A:And even though they know I work with ADHD and they've got adhd, they just don't want to hear it from me.
Speaker A:They don't want to.
Speaker A:They just hit see me as, like, noise, like whinging, moaning noises, like.
Speaker A:And even if I send them the videos or the links or the books, whatever, because it's come from me, they're not interested.
Speaker A:So I've been, you know, lucky enough to know lots of people in this field, so I'll sort of say, right, I'm going to get you a session with this person or that person and they've done it.
Speaker A:And actually, even though that person's probably said something quite similar to what I'd say because it's come from someone different, they're like, oh, okay, well, so and so said it and it's not come from mum, so it must mean that maybe there's some, like, level of truth to it.
Speaker A:So I think, I think it's great.
Speaker A:I think teenagers for sure need mentors.
Speaker A:They need people in their corner who aren't their parents or maybe aren't teachers, because so many.
Speaker A:I don't know what it's like in South Africa, but still we're still battling very uneducated, ignorant teachers when it comes to adhd.
Speaker A:But we kind of need teachers to get up to speed a little bit and drop the, you need this, you need to change that, do better, work harder.
Speaker A:And I wondered what maybe it's like in South Africa.
Speaker A:Like, are you noticing that there's more awareness or are you kind of still in the same position as we are here in the uk?
Speaker B:I think we're in a very similar position.
Speaker B:And there are two things that I think are key here.
Speaker B:The first is a lot of the parents I've spoken to, I've actually suggested that they go in one on one and chat to the teacher about, my child has ADHD and this is what this means for my child.
Speaker B:And these are very simple things you can do that won't impact the class environment, but really may change my child's experience.
Speaker B:Because a lot of the teachers don't understand what ADHD is.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, struggle with focusing and that's it.
Speaker B:Like, beyond that, they may not have training and sometimes you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker B:So I think that's one aspect of it and then I think the other aspect is very systemic.
Speaker B:So we're working here with a system that was built to basically get men ready to go to the army.
Speaker B:And everyone has to be regimented in lines.
Speaker B:They can't move to regulate.
Speaker B:And if kids are given accommodations or adjustments, they're seen as like, oh, well, they're given special attention or, you know, that's unfair there.
Speaker B:It's a system that is not inclusive.
Speaker B:And that's a very hard thing to get past.
Speaker B:And I think that's why it's even more important for kids to get support in terms of confidence.
Speaker B:Because if you are always being told, oh, just be quiet.
Speaker B:Why can't you focus?
Speaker B:Why can't you sit still?
Speaker B:You know, why are you aggravating the rest of the class?
Speaker B:As we say, those 20,000 com negative comments that they've heard by the age of 12 really, really impact them.
Speaker B:And at this point, I.
Speaker B:I'm not really sure what the biggest solution is, but I do feel like there's more awareness from certain people and we really need to spread that awareness of how to create inclusive classrooms and inclusive schooling systems, because inclusive spaces actually benefit everyone.
Speaker B:So, yes, it's definitely an issue.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's interesting what you say about how what the original point of the education system was, you know, like for the army and to keep everyone in line and discipline was and everyone sort of conforming.
Speaker A:And it's almost like this factory cookie cutter kind of mentality of like, churn everyone in, churn everyone out.
Speaker A:They need to all be at the same speed, doing the same things at exactly the same time and all in the same manner.
Speaker A:And one last thing I wanted to mention that you said that for teachers to understand that certain kids, neurodivergent kids, have to move to regulate, like that is just so powerful because we know now so much work coming out about somatic healing and therapy and experiencing that we hold a lot of our trauma in our bodies.
Speaker A:We hold a lot of our emotion in our bodies.
Speaker A:And if we're being made to sit rigidly still, it's going to come out like we.
Speaker A:And to move our body means you're going to have regulated kids, you're going to have better focused kids, all of this.
Speaker A:And it should just be Rule 101 in, you know, teaching college.
Speaker A:Make sure your kids are moving, make sure you're getting them outside and all of that.
Speaker A:So it's really powerful that you said that because it just makes so much sense, doesn't it?
Speaker A:We need to move to regulate ourselves.
Speaker B:And I think it's also important when you say it makes so much sense.
Speaker B:People need to think about what makes sense as opposed to, well, we've always done it this way, so we'll carry on doing it this way.
Speaker B:So for instance, another thing is like fidgeting in class or maybe sitting in a weird position in class that helps, helps you focus or helps you regulate.
Speaker B:You're told, sit up, don't do that.
Speaker B:You know, stop tapping your foot.
Speaker B:And I just feel like perhaps those aren't the, the main criteria for being a good student.
Speaker B:You know, everyone works in a different way and I think that should be acknowledged.
Speaker B:So definitely there are a whole lot of things and I, I do feel like movement is super beneficial whether you're a neurotypical child or a, a neurodivergent child.
Speaker B:I just, I mean, the fact that, you know, teenagers go to school for hours a day and then have to come home and do homework for hours a day is, there needs to be movement in between that.
Speaker B:Because for me that it just doesn't sound natural to begin with, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:I remember one of my really good friends that her son was diagnosed and she said to me, like, what do I need to know?
Speaker A:Like, tell me everything.
Speaker A:I was like, I can't tell you everything.
Speaker A:But I said, what's he doing sport wise?
Speaker A:He was probably about 6 or 7 at the time because she was saying to me, you know, all the typical old language of adhd, always a nightmare.
Speaker A:I can't control him.
Speaker A:He's all over the place.
Speaker A:Like, he's very disruptive.
Speaker A:He's just such hard work.
Speaker A:And in fairness to her, she's done an incredible job, amazing job.
Speaker A:Now, you know, now that she's understanding it.
Speaker A:But I said to her, like, get him outside.
Speaker A:Like, what does he like to do?
Speaker A:Running.
Speaker A:He likes to run.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Join an athletics club, get him running outside after school, anything that can move him and move his body, but also give him that self esteem boost.
Speaker A:Because if he's a really good runner and he's being coached by someone that sees that they're like, you're so good, like well done.
Speaker A:And that will hopefully transfer that confidence will transfer to other areas where it potentially might not be there.
Speaker A:So we, we have to use slightly more ingenious ways to boost our kids and build our kids up.
Speaker A:And it might not just be in the education setting.
Speaker A:It's kind of like transferring that, boosting that self esteem, boosting from one area so they can glean that self esteem to another area where perhaps there are more weaknesses.
Speaker A:I'd love to know like what would be, you know, if people is listening now and they kind of think, right, give me some ideas.
Speaker A:Like my kid comes home from school, I mean, I'll give you like what typically happens in my house with one of my younger kids.
Speaker A:She has been obviously trying to concentrate all day and she's been sat still all day and she's probably quite exhausted and she just needs like decompression time.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of meltdowns and tantrums.
Speaker A:Like something can just, you know, she can just flip.
Speaker A:What would you say is a good neuro affirmative approach to helping her transition from post school overwhelmed her.
Speaker A:She probably just needs to get some homework done at some point, definitely.
Speaker B:So I think that in terms of, you know, meltdowns, I definitely think that bad behavior is just an unmet need.
Speaker B:And I'm sure that people have heard that.
Speaker B:And there are a multitude of things that, you know, if a kid is coming home, they may be hungry, they may not have had enough water.
Speaker B:Because there's also, in terms of adhd, there's that self awareness difficulty sometimes of we forget to drink, we forget to eat, then it may be from masking.
Speaker B:There's so many things that could be overwhelming for a child.
Speaker B:And what I found, and this is, you know, at any point when a child is dysregulated or melting down, is that I think as parents our initial reaction is to try and problem solve in that moment.
Speaker B:And I think that is the worst idea because I mean, I've got ADHD and I know if I have a dysregulated moment and my brain is scrambled, if someone comes and says to me, okay, this is what we're going to do about it, or just go and do that, my rage will continue growing.
Speaker B:So I think my biggest advice would, would be to bring down the situation, bring down that meltdown in a way that works for your child.
Speaker B:Because obviously different things work for different people.
Speaker B:And I always like to say, if you know one person with adhd, you know one person.
Speaker B:So it's really about in a calm moment, whether that is, it needs to be soon after that has happened, is just sitting down with the child and saying, hey, I really, I saw that you were struggling earlier, you know, what was going on there and can you think of a time where you were perhaps feeling in a similar way?
Speaker B:What really helped you then?
Speaker B:And let's maybe try and bring the situation down from an eight to a seven and then perhaps say, you know, maybe spending time listening to music or, you know, even spending a bit of time on an app or just, you know, having a break and a meal, you can have suggestions.
Speaker B:But I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that what works for one person doesn't work for another.
Speaker B:So in a moment when you are able to problem solve with your child, figure out what's worked for them and try and implement that and make it a transition so that when things do escalate, your child can think, oh, yeah, this is what happened last time.
Speaker B:I'm going to go and, you know, sit in my Fidget corner and my mom can just sit there with me or maybe put her hand on my shoulder because, you know, physical touch is good for some people.
Speaker B:You know, as a neurodivergent adult, my husband always says me, do you need someone to listen to you, or do you need support and problem solving?
Speaker B:And that's really changed the game for us.
Speaker B:And I think, as you said, you said earlier, like, kids want.
Speaker B:You want to feel like they're being listened to, like their voice is being heard, that they're validated.
Speaker B:You're not just kind of being that parent who says, you go up and do your homework because I'm the parent and I tell you to do.
Speaker B:To do it.
Speaker B:I think that's super important.
Speaker B:And then in the same breath, you know, that kind of grace you give your child, you should be giving yourself.
Speaker B:In moments of dysregulation, sometimes you get dysregulated too.
Speaker B:It's actually a really good learning moment for a child.
Speaker B:And you can model behavior very well because you can do the same.
Speaker B:You can say, okay, I feel like I'm not calm.
Speaker B:I'm gonna go for two minutes.
Speaker B:I'll be back in two minutes.
Speaker B:Get someone else to be with the kid and then come back and be like, hey, mom, really had a hard moment there.
Speaker B:This is what I'm going to do next time.
Speaker B:You know, what do you think you're going to do?
Speaker B:So that's really that.
Speaker B:That behavior without being like, I'm the perfect parent and this is how I'm going to do something.
Speaker B:It's about working together.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that so much.
Speaker A:Because what we've got now, we've got awareness.
Speaker A:And so as I know, it's very difficult.
Speaker A:You know, I'm in my 40s, and I know people are being diagnosed in their 50s and 60s, and it feels like we've kind of lost, like, this whole understanding of ourselves and our life and what could have been.
Speaker A:But what we can use with that is.
Speaker A:Is.
Speaker A:Is connection.
Speaker A:And we can connect with our kids and recognize.
Speaker A:I mean, I know many of us sometimes get really triggered by our neurodivergent kids because when we see them having this sort of dysregulated moment, this meltdown, this anger, this rage, all the things and we remember, we know exactly because we have it in our adult manner.
Speaker A:Manner.
Speaker A:And interestingly, I had.
Speaker A:Only yesterday, I had a thing where my RSD really, really flared up.
Speaker A:And my daughter, my youngest daughter, is so similar to me, like, in every way, and the way her ADHD shows up and everything.
Speaker A:And she had something with a friend as well.
Speaker A:So I typically probably wouldn't have told her the story that happened with the.
Speaker A:With my friend, my other friend, because I thought, you know, she's a kid.
Speaker A:She doesn't really want to hear that.
Speaker A:But because she'd had a moment of feeling like, left out and excluded with one of her friends, and I'd had something similar with my friend, I explained to her, and I said, you know, I mean, obviously she doesn't understand about rejection sensitivity just yet, but I kind of tried to explain to her that we are a little bit more sensitive and we do feel things more.
Speaker A:And when friends do things that sometimes feel a little bit kind of like insensitive or mean or they've not really thought about it, we'll really take it to heart.
Speaker A:And I think it really validated to her that even in my fort, you know, even as a grown woman in our 40s, that we still have to navigate all of this.
Speaker A:And it's okay for her to feel like that, and it's okay for me to feel like this because it's just taking that.
Speaker A:It's taking that sting out of it all, because if we know what's going on, then, you know, and the same, you know, what you said about being dehydrated.
Speaker A:I see that again.
Speaker A:Like, you know, I'll empty their water bottles, and I can see how much have they drunk.
Speaker A:And I was thinking that is nowhere near enough water that they should have been drinking during the day.
Speaker A:Yes, they may have drank at lunchtime, but there's nowhere near enough or that brain capacity or that extra focus, like you say, the masking that takes our brain is like, needs more hydration.
Speaker A:It really does.
Speaker A:So when she comes home and she is totally all over the show and just needs a lot of decompression, I give her, you know, like, a cup of tea, I'll make her some toast, give her her iPad, and I just leave her alone.
Speaker A:And my older kids always laugh at me, go, look at.
Speaker A:She's treated like a princess.
Speaker A:Look what you do.
Speaker A:And I didn't have that level of knowledge and awareness when they were her age.
Speaker A:But it does worry me a little bit.
Speaker A:Like, what are your thoughts on potentially over coddling or over comforting when they do leave home and they do have to manage and we're not there doing it all for them?
Speaker A:And there is that element of, like, oh, gosh, you know, like, what am I.
Speaker A:Am I doing the right thing by managing and meeting all her needs?
Speaker A:Because she will have to learn to do that when she's older.
Speaker B:So I think that this is a question that comes up a lot, and I think it's a.
Speaker B:A very important thing to discuss because obviously you want your child to be well adjusted and you want them to be independent and go out into the world and do the things they want to do.
Speaker B:But I think it actually sometimes comes down to that executive function skills gap, because if there are instances.
Speaker B:So, for instance, with your daughter, our emotional regulation is something we grapple.
Speaker B:We may grapple with a bit more than neurotypical kids and adults do.
Speaker B:And in that instance, that's a skills gap.
Speaker B:That's something that you need to develop over time and really understand, you know, how to regulate and all of those things.
Speaker B:And it would be, you know, similar in terms of problem solving or motivation or anything that we may struggle with day to day.
Speaker B:If you do have a skills gap of three to five years and then someone is trying to kind of your parent is trying to be the parent and be the authority, in some instances, you're actually making the skills gap something that seems like their fault.
Speaker B:And that can be very hard for a child, because I know in certain instances when I was younger, there were just certain things that I could not do and I would get into trouble for them.
Speaker B:But it was a skills gap that I needed to develop.
Speaker B:I needed support, I needed strategies.
Speaker B:And I feel like if a child is given all of that support and you can see overall in the long term that there is improvements, then perhaps it's time to be a bit more disciplined or to call out behavior that doesn't seem acceptable because, you know, they've been given the right tools to be able to do a task or to regulate their emotions.
Speaker B:But without that, I think it's quite hard for a child to be able to, you know, just get on with it and kind of be given tough love if their behavior is not bad.
Speaker B:It's actually a skills gap that they're struggling with, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, what I'm, I'm hearing is that we need to recognize that there is a delay in certain maturity and like developing those skills.
Speaker A:And we know that in certain ADHD individuals it can be sometimes up to like four or five years the skills gap.
Speaker A:And that's a big deal, isn't it?
Speaker A:Like if you've got an 18, 19 year old who is meant to be going to college, university, and we kind of recognize that maybe their executive functioning or the working memory is operating, maybe like what you'd expect from like a 14 year old, then it is worrying as a parent because you kind of think, oh, you know, they're used to me doing all their washing, they're used to me making sure that there's food and there's always lunch for them, there's always food in the fridge, making sure they get to school on time.
Speaker A:And again.
Speaker A:I've got an older child who's gone to university this year and that was a massive fear of mine.
Speaker A:And yes, he's responsible, but I still don't know what's in his fridge and I don't know if he's getting to his lectures on time.
Speaker A:And judging by the amount of washing he's brought home over the past few times he's been back, he's not doing any washing.
Speaker A:But on the flip side, he's happy and I speak to him and he's met friends and he's socializing and he's enjoying his course.
Speaker A:And so I kind of think like, we can worry about all the what ifs, but we also have to let these kids, neurodivergent or not, make them same mistakes that we did and learn in some of the ways that we did.
Speaker A:And sometimes they will.
Speaker A:We had to learn the hard way.
Speaker A:And sometimes we, we just picked up a skill and we're like, wow.
Speaker A:Like, I was probably one of the only people at university that could cook, like properly cook because I loved it.
Speaker A:And it was just something that I naturally enjoyed.
Speaker A:I used to just throw things together, open the fridge and be like, oh, I can simple eggs with these peppers, with that, with that, the feta cheese.
Speaker A:And everyone's like, wow.
Speaker A:Oh my God.
Speaker A:But I didn't, it's not like I studied it, I didn't read recipe books.
Speaker A:It's just intuitively I was good at it.
Speaker A:So it's like you said at the beginning, it's like finding those strengths in our kids and really like honing them.
Speaker B:And I think this can happen as, as parents, we always think about like, the should.
Speaker B:So it's like, oh, my kids should be able to do their washing and they should be able to get to class in time.
Speaker B:And this is how it should should be.
Speaker B:And at the end of the day, you have to pick your battle.
Speaker B:So for me, if I could see a well adjusted son who was making friends, who was able to, I mean, I, when I started university, I would call my mom crying every day and say, I want to come back home.
Speaker B:And to me, in hindsight, if I wasn't able to do my washing and I forgot a few meals, that wouldn't have been a big deal to me.
Speaker B:So I think it really is about picking your battles.
Speaker B:And it's also just realizing that not all things are shoulds.
Speaker B:And I've always found that, like, figuring out what works for me, kind of like harnessing my strengths and then outsourcing the things that I'm not great at has just made me way more confident.
Speaker B:And I think that's the kind of mindset that we should, we should give our kids to.
Speaker B:And once again, I think, like, as parents, of course, we want the best for our kids.
Speaker B:And when we see that that may not be the case, you know, something happens or whatever, sometimes we vocalize that in a way of like, oh, you should have done this and this isn't good enough.
Speaker B:And that's okay too.
Speaker B:Like, we're all human and, you know, we all get dysregulated and all of that.
Speaker B:And as you say, you muddle that.
Speaker B:So I think that it's, you know, all a learning experience.
Speaker B:I think it's just important that a parent does keep in mind, if something occurs like that, it's not just your child being lazy or demotivated or not caring.
Speaker B:It's actually to do with their brain.
Speaker B:And, you know, on some days we're great, some days we're not.
Speaker B:And just to have that awareness and that compassion is really important.
Speaker A:Yeah, we could have these skills gaps that, you know, for the kids, we might notice that.
Speaker A:But actually, what we also know with ADHD is that even though we have the skills gaps, we also have like, things that we're way ahead at, like, brilliant.
Speaker A:You know, you might have a kid that can't tidy their room for love or money.
Speaker A:They can't hand their towel up, but they can read a book in two days.
Speaker A:And, you know, and that's like, wow, how have they just finished that book?
Speaker A:Or they can build a LEGO model that would take someone two weeks in a Night.
Speaker A:And again, it's kind of like, right, let's celebrate that.
Speaker A:And sort of the typical things that drive us mad, like the towel on the floor.
Speaker A:Every single day I'll walk in, there's always a towel on the floor, at least one of my kids rooms.
Speaker A:I feel like a broken record, but I, what I've tried to lean into is just to walk in, take a breath, see the towel, I'm going to hang it up.
Speaker A:And even though the olden days version of me, the parenting that I learned was pick your towel up, you're so lazy, you know, that you're not in a hotel.
Speaker A:Da da da da.
Speaker A:All the things that we hear.
Speaker A:I'm exhausted and I've been saying it for five years and they're still not, still not going in.
Speaker A:So maybe towel on the floor is just something I just have to choose to pick up and, and bite my tongue.
Speaker A:But when my daughter, the same daughter that picks, you know, leaves the towel on the floor every day, she can then make this incredible apple crumble out of like nowhere.
Speaker A:That is amazing.
Speaker A:You know, she's, you know, a young teenager and I kind of think I'd rather celebrate her making the apple crumble and focus on that than all my energy on the negative on the towel on the floor.
Speaker A:And you know, I think as parents we have to hone in and really focus on like reducing our shoulds and the shame.
Speaker A:Like all the shoulds that we carry that we think is like good parenting, good housekeeping, being good parent or wife or this or that, all these like female things that we've had to deal with and drop that, drop the shame of maybe all the stuff that we couldn't do.
Speaker A:And we kind of think, well, my kids are going to do this no matter what.
Speaker A:Like if I couldn't do it, if I didn't succeed at school and I didn't get to university, God damn it, my kids are.
Speaker A:And I'm going to force them and push them no matter what, because look what I could have achieved if I had gone to university.
Speaker A:Like all this, all these things that we carry around.
Speaker A:So we need to drop all of that and just almost let this playing field you know, level out for our kids and see, see what they turn out into.
Speaker A:I mean, this is me trying to give myself a motivational speech here because I have not got this locked down, by the way.
Speaker B:The, the funny thing is, is that like, I don't think anyone does.
Speaker B:Firstly, because if anyone says they, they've got the parenting playbook, it's not true.
Speaker B:No one is the perfect parent.
Speaker B:Everyone is learning as they're going along and living their own life, you know, with their own experiences.
Speaker B:But if I, I would say that like, 99 of the parents I speak to, if I ask them, like, what is the most important thing for you in terms of your.
Speaker B:Of your child?
Speaker B:Nearly every one of them say, I want them to be happy.
Speaker B:And a child being happy doesn't mean that they have hung their tail up.
Speaker B:So it is definitely about picking your battles and then also just using your own energy resources.
Speaker B:So, for instance, like, I.
Speaker B:I generally don't give, like, tips and advice unless people ask me.
Speaker B:I try and find out what like has worked for them in the past.
Speaker B:But I generally tell parents, like, with that is I like to say close the loop.
Speaker B:So, for instance, like, you know, if you've got a task that a project that you're struggling to break down.
Speaker B:So for instance, going to have a bath, getting ready, and then the towel always ends up on the floor, it can be a thing of, like, going to your daughter and being like, please close the loop.
Speaker B:You know, and they'll be like, oh, okay, that's how I finish this.
Speaker B:Some days you won't have the energy to do it, and it's easier just to do it yourself.
Speaker B:But I also think that there is, like, a way to be constructive about it while still recognizing why that may be happening.
Speaker B:Just that awareness, it's not a lack of care, you know, is really important.
Speaker A:Yeah, please close the loop.
Speaker A:So you basically, when you say that, does that trigger something in your kid to know that the putting the towel on, the hanging your towel up is the end of the cycle?
Speaker B:Yes, exactly.
Speaker B:So, for instance, just say, like, you see that you've got a boy and every time you go into the loo, they haven't the toilet seat down.
Speaker B:Then you can chat to them and be like, okay, you know, this is actually a project here, going to the loo.
Speaker B:It sounds weird, but there's more than one action that you have to take to finish that.
Speaker B:So, you know, you go to the loo, you clean your hands.
Speaker B:I walk past the and say, hey, boy.
Speaker B:You know, close the loop.
Speaker B:And they go and they think, oh, yeah, I forgot to put the seat down.
Speaker B:So it's like little reminders like that, you know, and everyone has different strategies, you know, like visual reminders of tasks and all of that.
Speaker B:But it's the main thing is the parent understanding why that may be happening.
Speaker A:Yeah, because they probably got distracted or all the different steps for them was just too many.
Speaker A:And that was it.
Speaker A:There was just kind of like, I'm done now kind of thing.
Speaker A:And I think when we have that understanding of how ADHD can present in so many different ways, especially that skills gap in kids with executive functioning, it's just so much easier, isn't it?
Speaker A:Like, there's just.
Speaker A:There's less arguing, there's less shouting, there's more understanding, more compassion.
Speaker A:I also think it's more like humor as well, that you can actually joke and laugh.
Speaker A:And like, we talk about ADHD so much in our family that it's just understood, like, why.
Speaker A:Why are you dysregulated?
Speaker A:Have you eaten?
Speaker A:Do you need to sleep?
Speaker A:Are you overwhelmed?
Speaker A:All of this.
Speaker A:And we sort of just go there and we.
Speaker A:And we know, as opposed to it being like straight into your personality, like, what's wrong with you?
Speaker A:You say this, you say that.
Speaker A:Like, grow up, deal with, you know, deal with it.
Speaker A:You're so sensitive.
Speaker A:Like, you get these constant personality kind of criticisms, but actually when we know it's ADHD and we know what's going on behind the surface, underneath the surface, we can just be like, okay, fine.
Speaker B:That's why coaching can be so powerful, especially for parents, because you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker B:So if you are seeing your child kind of being dysregulated, never letting you finish your sentence, always interrupting you, maybe getting, like, aggressive, those aren't easy things to deal with.
Speaker B:And it is really hard for the parents.
Speaker B:But I know for me, having an understanding of why that may be happening just is a really great reminder.
Speaker A:I agree 100%.
Speaker A:I love coaching and I love what you do.
Speaker A:And I think the more understanding and the more compassion and awareness that we can bring to all facets of this, teachers, parents, siblings, grandparents.
Speaker A:I think grandparents is a massive one.
Speaker A:I mean, if we could get more education, because, yeah, we could be parenting the neurodivergent children.
Speaker A:But they come in and go, oh, we're back in our day.
Speaker A:You know, we did it like this and you were all fine.
Speaker A:Or you just tell.
Speaker A:You tell your child to get on with it.
Speaker A:And they will.
Speaker A:However, we also have to recognize that they, you know, they come from one era, we're in this different era.
Speaker A:My kids are going to know things that I don't know, and hopefully my grandchildren are also going to know things that I won't know.
Speaker A:And I'm going to be really backwards in so many different things.
Speaker A:So we also kind of just have to accept that this Is, you know, this is life.
Speaker B:And I think.
Speaker B:I think that that's also something that a lot of parents come to me with, is just the judgment from other people.
Speaker B:I think grandparents is a dominant one just because they are in our homes.
Speaker B:And sometimes that's where the dysregulation occurs.
Speaker B:And generally, family members are a lot closer to what's going on in a family.
Speaker B:But there is a lot of judgment about parents parenting their ADHD kids or neurodivergent kids slightly differently.
Speaker B:It's kind of like, oh, well, why are you giving in to them?
Speaker B:You know, you just don't discipline them enough.
Speaker B:There is a lot of judgment from.
Speaker B:From the outside world that can bring about a lot of shame and grief for a parent.
Speaker B:And, you know, like, I speak to a lot of parents about that.
Speaker B:And at the end of the day, you know what is best for your child and, you know, what is best for your family.
Speaker B:As you said, you know, other people don't know what they don't know.
Speaker B:And I'm always of the opinion that I'm happy to teach people, let them know what's happening.
Speaker B:I don't expect everyone to understand why I have certain challenges or why, hypothetically, my child has certain challenges.
Speaker B:But some people are not going to be accepting of what you tell them or what you try to teach them.
Speaker B:And in those instances, you.
Speaker B:You just have to accept that you know what's best and you know, it can end relationships.
Speaker B:It can be quite disheartening.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, I think if people just understood that everyone lives life differently and what works for one person doesn't work for the other.
Speaker B:We just have a much more inclusive environment, because I think a lot of people have a lot to say in those instances and how kids should be parented.
Speaker B:But unless you're in it and unless you're there, it's very easy to kind of be in the grandstands and be giving your opinion.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Justine, thank you so much for being here and offering all your insights and guidance.
Speaker A:It's really fascinating to hear it from this side, and I think it'll be a really helpful conversation for so many parents and maybe grandparents as well.
Speaker A:It'd be great, you know, for them to listen and understand.
Speaker A:And, yeah, the more we talk about this, hopefully the more we normalize it, tell people where they can, you know, find you if they do want to get some coaching with you, like, how's the best way to contact you?
Speaker B:So they can reach me on my website, which is www.get curious.net or just go into LinkedIn and put in Justine Graham.
Speaker B:I currently don't have an Instagram.
Speaker B:I gave Instagram a break.
Speaker B:I will be starting that up again, but for Now I'd say LinkedIn or go to that website.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's where I found you on LinkedIn and you were posting some really interesting things.
Speaker A:So thank you so much, Justine.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Kate.
Speaker B:And I just want to say thank you so much for the work you're doing.
Speaker B:When I first received my diagnosis, I think yours was the first podcast I'd ever listened to way before I became a coach and I listened to an episode about a lady who garden flowers until she was able to go to the flower show and that was just so inspiring.
Speaker B:I loved it.
Speaker B:That was the episode I listened to.
Speaker A:So yeah, yeah, that's a good episode.
Speaker A:Oh, amazing.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:If today's episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for even further support, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit, is now available to order from anywhere you get your books from.
Speaker A:I really hope this book is going to be the ultimate resource for anyone who loves this podcast and wants a deeper dive into all these kinds of conversations.
Speaker A:If you head to my website, ADHD women's website wellbeing.co.uk you'll find all the information on the book there, which is going to be out on the 17th of July.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
