Channeling our ADHD Creativity and Energy into Purpose
Are you newly diagnosed with ADHD and looking for more support? Or are you currently awaiting an ADHD diagnosis and desperate for more guidance?? If so, look at some of Kate's workshops and free resources here.
This week, proud ADHDer and neurodiversity advocate Louise Gooding joins us on The ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.
Louise is the author of three braintastic children's nonfiction books: Just Like Me: 40 Neurologically and Physically Diverse People Who Broke Stereotypes; The Memory Book, a reassuring story about understanding dementia; and recently released and best-selling Wonderfully Wired Brains, an introduction to the world of neurodiversity.
Louise has worked with children from 5 to 16 and has got them thinking about their own wonderfully wired brains. She speaks openly about her own experiences as a neurodiverse child and adult and how her experiences have shaped who she is today.
On this week's episode, Kate and Louise spoke about:
- Realising your dreams in unconventional ways
- Louise's journey to becoming a children's author
- Creating characters that ADHD children can relate to
- Creating understanding about Nuerodiverdence through books
- Finding validation
- Struggling with the school system being undiagnosed
- Not being deterred by conventional ways of learning
- Accepting how your brain works to achieve what you want
- Having someone to bounce our ideas and reflect our emotions to
Thanks to our sponsor, Get Dopa, created by and for neurodivergent brains, with 16 powerful nootropic ingredients in one smart supplement. Get your 10% discount by using code Kate10 at the checkout. Click here to find out more.
Kate Moryoussef is a women’s ADHD Lifestyle & Wellbeing coach and EFT practitioner helping overwhelmed and unfulfilled newly-diagnosed ADHD women find more calm, balance, hope, health, compassion, creativity and clarity.
Have a look at some of Kate's workshops and free resources here.
Follow the podcast on Instagram here
Find Kate's resources on ADDitude magazine here
Transcript
Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.
Kate Moore Youssef:After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.
Kate Moore Youssef:In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.
Kate Moore Youssef:Here's today's episode.
Kate Moore Youssef:So hi everyone.
Kate Moore Youssef:Welcome back to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast.
Kate Moore Youssef:And today we have Louise Gooding.
Kate Moore Youssef:Now, Louise Gooding is a channel children's author writing non fiction and picture books for all ages to enjoy.
Kate Moore Youssef:And Louise has a keen interest in sharing stories that feature characters that stand out, are different and have something to say.
Kate Moore Youssef:And these stories have been inspired from her own experiences and she took at writing to sensitive issues within children's books such as disability, neurodiversity and mental health.
Kate Moore Youssef:And these amazing books include the Memory Book, Just Like Me and Wonderfully Wired Brains, which I have in front of me and absolutely adore and I can't wait to talk about.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I'm just absolutely delighted to have you here because I feel like we've got lots to cover.
Kate Moore Youssef:So welcome to the podcast.
Louise Gooding:Thank you for having me.
Louise Gooding:It's lovely.
Louise Gooding:I've been following you, you know, you for ages.
Louise Gooding:So it's been lovely to sort of.
Louise Gooding:Yeah.
Louise Gooding:Be sort of now a part of this, which is exciting.
Kate Moore Youssef:Absolutely.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I just love speaking to people who have had their diagnoses later on in life.
Kate Moore Youssef:I know you were telling me before, that was about five or six years ago.
Kate Moore Youssef:And you're channeling all of that energy and all that sort of creativity, but for a purpose and trying to help more children.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I just wondered, you know, with regards to the books that you, you wrote, you've written the memory book and just like me, which would be four wonderfully wide brains.
Kate Moore Youssef:Do you had you had your diagnosis then?
Louise Gooding:I had just had my diagnosis when I started writing.
Louise Gooding:I think I started writing, I wrote something similar to the Memory Book was my first ever book because, you know, whilst I was helping my daugh daughter who had her diagnosis of adhd, I was also kind of, you know, sort of going through that whole journey with my grandmother, with her dementia journey and she was an educator.
Louise Gooding:And she was always like, children should read.
Louise Gooding:Whether it's the back of a receipt or, or a newspaper clipping, whatever it is, they should.
Louise Gooding:All children should have access to reading, and if they can't, they should be read to.
Louise Gooding:She.
Louise Gooding:She worked in special needs as well.
Louise Gooding:She was just a lovely person.
Louise Gooding:So I wanted to write about dementia.
Louise Gooding:That was basically why what started me.
Louise Gooding:It wasn't anything inspired by my diagn on my daughter's diagnosis.
Louise Gooding:I wasn't even thinking about that at the time.
Louise Gooding:It was focused on, obviously, my grandma's journey.
Louise Gooding:And I went to a children's writers conference with this book under my arm, feeling ridiculously confident, with no experience at all of writing children's books.
Louise Gooding:I think that's the ADHD of, like, impulsiveness of like, I've got this.
Louise Gooding:This is amazing.
Louise Gooding:But, yeah, I went to this conference and someone was doing a talk on language we use and being careful and mindful of the different sort of languages we use around different people and different groups.
Louise Gooding:But this person kept on slipping up and going like, oh, that person's mental, or they're mad, or, you know, and I was like, so we're really careful about language, apart from when it includes maybe neurodiverse experiences or, or people with mental health experiences.
Louise Gooding:And obviously I didn't say anything because I'm just a nobody in the audience, but I kind of went home with that, I guess, fire of like, we talk about inclusive language all the time.
Louise Gooding:You know, she's talking about, obviously for disabled people.
Louise Gooding:Please do not say, oh, you know, that's.
Louise Gooding:That's blinded me, or, you know, any of the, you know, please, you know, And I understand, I totally agree.
Louise Gooding:Inclusive language all the way through.
Louise Gooding:But when it comes to the brain and mental health and neurodiversity, there was still this sort of stigma of, like, forgotten group of people.
Louise Gooding:So that kind of what lit the fire for me to go, okay, I need to find a space for this.
Louise Gooding:I need to find a space to talk about that.
Louise Gooding:And where do I start?
Louise Gooding:And that's kind of.
Louise Gooding:I went into a deep dive of, you know, what sort of other neurodivergent people are out there doing things which were amazing sort of like game changers around the world.
Louise Gooding:And, you know, whilst I was looking into neurodiverse people, I was thinking, well, hold on.
Louise Gooding:Well, I've.
Louise Gooding:I also live with chronic back pain.
Louise Gooding:I've got a degenerative disc issue in my spine, so I have a lot of pain.
Louise Gooding:And I was like, well, there's More to.
Louise Gooding:There's more to just me than the neurodiversity.
Louise Gooding:I do understand, you know, some of the disability link which was also missing, which is why I wanted to write just like me.
Louise Gooding:Because how often do children sit there and go, who was out there like me?
Louise Gooding:That I don't see anyone.
Louise Gooding:I don't see anyone like me anywhere.
Louise Gooding:And when they do, they're sort of like caricatures of who we are, if that makes any sense.
Louise Gooding:I just felt I really connected with that as a.
Louise Gooding:With a story, if that makes sense of as the positive representation.
Louise Gooding:How can you stop looking at people and going despite there.
Louise Gooding:Because there's more to us all, whether we're disabled, you know, physically diverse.
Louise Gooding:And I say that, you know, because obviously we've got visible skin differences, just differences.
Louise Gooding:And.
Louise Gooding:And no one really talks about it.
Louise Gooding:And again, I think there's an amazing person who's actually in my books.
Louise Gooding:This is where my brain, I said, will go off.
Louise Gooding:Forgotten his surname, Adam.
Louise Gooding:And he works for, I think, Faces for Change.
Louise Gooding:I think, I can't.
Louise Gooding:This is when my brain switches off.
Louise Gooding:I'm really sorry.
Louise Gooding:Everyone says live ADHD brain just goes, you know what you want to say, but we're just going to withhold that information from you.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, the processing situation.
Kate Moore Youssef:Know it well.
Louise Gooding:I'm always very like, this is me.
Louise Gooding:Sorry.
Louise Gooding:Anyways, he.
Louise Gooding:I have to look him up in a second and just check his name because he really is worth a mention because he does some amazing work for people with visible differences and saying, look, you know, stop using us as the villains.
Louise Gooding:Stop using us, our community, for, you know, children and need adverts.
Louise Gooding:He.
Louise Gooding:And he does some amazing, amazing work.
Louise Gooding:He calls himself God's favorite disabled person.
Louise Gooding:He's hilarious.
Louise Gooding:I love.
Louise Gooding:But yeah, there's some amazing people.
Louise Gooding:And that's what said.
Louise Gooding:You know why I started Adam?
Kate Moore Youssef:Adam Pearson.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yes, I know exactly who you mean.
Kate Moore Youssef:He's fantastic.
Kate Moore Youssef:He's brilliant.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, because what, what you've created in wonderfully wide brains, which is I've got in front of me, is the most beautiful book and it's so easy to read, understand its color is full of amazing illustrations.
Kate Moore Youssef:But what you've really hit on is all the, the little things that are really hard to explain to other people.
Kate Moore Youssef:And so you could literally hand this book to someone, a grandparent, you know, partner, sibling, teacher, and just say, here's.
Kate Moore Youssef:Here's what's going on and here's what you need to understand.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I have read a lot of books a Lot of books.
Kate Moore Youssef:And this, I have to say, explains so much in such a concise, clear, practical, imaginative way that I.
Kate Moore Youssef:I just love it.
Kate Moore Youssef:Absolutely love.
Kate Moore Youssef:You've got glossary, you've got ways to understand, you've got help, you've got people, celebrities, people from history, understanding tics, you know, with Tourette syndrome.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I love it when you talk about bipolar, ocd, anxiety, depression, sleep.
Kate Moore Youssef:But this is all through the lens of children.
Kate Moore Youssef:The processing disorder.
Kate Moore Youssef:One is the.
Kate Moore Youssef:The pages are just fantastic because you talk about the funny phrases and getting sort of metaphors and jokes mixed up, which has been the running joke of my life.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, my dad has consistently laughed at me and mocked me because I can never get the phrase right.
Kate Moore Youssef:Or I'll tell a joke and I'll miss a punchline, or I'll try and tell a story and the story won't come out correctly and I'll be like, oh, do you know what?
Kate Moore Youssef:Forget it.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm not going to tell the story.
Kate Moore Youssef:And so this book has sort of really helped me understand how certain things have showed up for me, even though I thought I knew lots about neurodiversity, so.
Kate Moore Youssef:And yeah, and you've got Synthesisia, Dyscalcia, Dysgraphia.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's fabulous.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I can't wait for my kids to, you know, properly read it because this should.
Kate Moore Youssef:This book should be in every library in school, and it should be every family that has got neurodiversity in there.
Kate Moore Youssef:It should be there on the kitchen table, a glossary ready for people to just, you know, dive in.
Kate Moore Youssef:Because my issue is that the generation behind us, like grandparent generation, are very dismissive about all these complexities and nuances and they kind of just brush things aside.
Kate Moore Youssef:And actually, if you don't have the mental energy, and let's face it, there's a lot of mental energy there to advocate for neurodiversity.
Kate Moore Youssef:You know, we know, we see it in the media, we see it everywhere, that if you don't understand, it's so exhausting.
Kate Moore Youssef:And actually, sometimes you just say, I can't be bothered.
Kate Moore Youssef:But a book like this breaks down those.
Kate Moore Youssef:Those gaps.
Kate Moore Youssef:See, there's a.
Kate Moore Youssef:You get that?
Kate Moore Youssef:I can't remember.
Kate Moore Youssef:The phrase breaks down the.
Louise Gooding:I think we know maybe.
Louise Gooding:Maybe Dr.
Louise Gooding:Zeus also, that's why he came up with these words.
Louise Gooding:He couldn't think of the word he wanted, so he just made things up.
Louise Gooding:Possibly.
Louise Gooding:When you've got people who don't understand and you're trying.
Louise Gooding:I mean, I don't know about You.
Louise Gooding:But I mean, I, I bought a lot of books as well about neurodiversity and I just found them so unfriendly because I'm like, this is just so much information being thrown at me in block heavy text, loads of data.
Louise Gooding:I don't know what to do with that.
Louise Gooding:Like, it would go in one ear and out the other.
Louise Gooding:It would not stay with me.
Louise Gooding:And I really struggled with that.
Louise Gooding:And I mean, I guess again, this is another reason I was already finding bits of information and shouting at them, at people.
Louise Gooding:So just, I guess gathering them and putting them into a book made sense for me because I just.
Louise Gooding:Where do you go?
Louise Gooding:You know, there's so many resources available, but they're not all clubbed together or they're a bit here or you, you know, you think you found the resource, then you find that they're linked to maybe, maybe not such a great organization.
Louise Gooding:That's the other thing which sometimes happens.
Louise Gooding:It's really difficult, I think, to know that you're getting the right information.
Louise Gooding:So that was something really important to me.
Louise Gooding:The people could pick up a book and yes, it's targeted, as you just pointed out, it's targeted at kids from seven plus.
Louise Gooding:I think it's for everybody.
Louise Gooding:You know, personally, it's your basic easy to read guide, what's going on.
Louise Gooding:And it breaks it down to just the beginner's level.
Louise Gooding:Like, I mean, I made such a point of when I first wrote this as a proposal, I, I had the animal bit in there.
Louise Gooding:It was so important for me to talk about diversity and brain diversity.
Louise Gooding:Let's not even talk about humans.
Louise Gooding:Let's just go bigger than that.
Louise Gooding:Let's look at how diverse, even in, in the animal kingdom our brains are.
Louise Gooding:Like, that was.
Louise Gooding:And that again, brings in kids, brings in people to go, well, hold on.
Louise Gooding:Yes, like, you know, there is some sort of changes.
Louise Gooding:There are some differences.
Louise Gooding:So obviously, you know, I hope to like bring that just down to the basics so everybody could feel confident and proud of, of their brain because this was the thing.
Louise Gooding:Like, someone might pick up this book and go, well, this book's not relevant to me because I don't have a diagnosis of, you know, I'm not autistic and I don't have adhd.
Louise Gooding:It doesn't matter.
Louise Gooding:You, have you ever felt low in your life?
Louise Gooding:Have you ever suffered from insomnia?
Louise Gooding:Have you ever like had moments where things have been difficult?
Louise Gooding:You know, it does talk in there about mental health and I think everyone can relate to that.
Louise Gooding:Everyone can find something in this book that they relate to.
Louise Gooding:Whether you're neurodiverse or not, I think that's.
Louise Gooding:Well, everyone's neurodiverse.
Louise Gooding:That's what I sort of covered in the book.
Louise Gooding:Everyone is neurodiverse.
Louise Gooding:But whether you're neurodivergent or not, I hope that people look at this and learn something and.
Louise Gooding:And realize that, you know, the way they're made up is special and unique to them.
Kate Moore Youssef: e timeline here back from the: Kate Moore Youssef:And like you say, it's a celebration of brains, it's a celebration of difference.
Kate Moore Youssef:And when we can move past this stigma and we can move past the, oh, you know, I'm only this or I'm only that, and actually realize that there's this spectrum of going on and where Tourette's can interplay with OCD and anxiety, can interplay with ADHD and dysgraphia and dyscalcula.
Kate Moore Youssef:And for people to understand that, you know, we don't have to have all these labels, but to have a recognition and compassion and acceptance that it's there.
Kate Moore Youssef:But also just for me, you know, just that that moment when I read about the processing and it made me laugh about, you know, be sort of messing up on my metaphors and analogies.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's kind of like, okay, it's not me just being like, a bit silly and ditzy.
Kate Moore Youssef:There's actually a processing thing of working memory and, know, mixing language together.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I've still got a podcast and what you were saying before is sometimes, you know, with your working memory, just things just disappear.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I said, you know, you've written all these books and so for you to.
Kate Moore Youssef:Your brain is incredible.
Kate Moore Youssef:And for you to just sort of have a moment where your working memory sort of, you know, takes over for you to feel like.
Kate Moore Youssef:I think you use the word a bit.
Kate Moore Youssef:What did you use?
Kate Moore Youssef:If my brain's a little bit rubbish.
Louise Gooding:You know, I think it's.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Louise Gooding:The funny thing is, and as I said to you, like, I get more anxiety about it around adults than I do with children.
Louise Gooding:Like adults.
Louise Gooding:I always feel like I have to be an adult.
Louise Gooding:I guess I have to have it together, everyone.
Louise Gooding:I think this is a really good thing with it.
Louise Gooding:With ADHD is as well.
Louise Gooding:Sometimes we're really good at looking like we've got everything together, but we really don't.
Louise Gooding:Like everything's fire behind us and we're still smiling.
Louise Gooding:We're fine.
Louise Gooding:Because I think for me, why I do.
Louise Gooding:I really am authentically me when I go into a school or online workshop because it's so important.
Louise Gooding:Because when I was at school, I was the.
Louise Gooding:A star, a student when it came to presentations, I could, I could present anything.
Louise Gooding:I could talk the legs of a hind donkey off of anything when I was excited and interested in it.
Louise Gooding:Put me in an exam situation and I failed and I flunked and I.
Louise Gooding:I just couldn't do it.
Louise Gooding:And I always assumed that that meant I had.
Louise Gooding:I'll be on quite honest.
Louise Gooding:I assumed it meant I had no future.
Louise Gooding:I assumed it meant that I couldn't do the things I wanted to do.
Louise Gooding:And I always fancied being a teacher because put me in front of kids, I come alive.
Louise Gooding:I like educating.
Louise Gooding:I love history.
Louise Gooding:I love.
Louise Gooding:You know why I put history in this?
Louise Gooding:Because I was like, let me talk about history because it's a passion of mine.
Louise Gooding:But I just, I failed because I could not do the exams.
Louise Gooding:So that door was.
Louise Gooding:Felt like it was forever shut to me, if that made sense.
Louise Gooding:And when I discovered writing, I said I didn't have a great idea.
Louise Gooding:I just spontaneous like, well, let's see where this goes and let's see what happens.
Louise Gooding:And I've kind of discovered that I'm actually being an educator.
Louise Gooding:This is.
Louise Gooding:I'm doing what I always wanted to do and I just did it in my way, in a way that works with my brain.
Louise Gooding:And that is my massive message to kids because I thought that I would never get to be an educator because my working memory wouldn't allow me to sit exams.
Louise Gooding:But I am an educator and I think that's so important.
Louise Gooding:I want kids to sit there who maybe are maybe like me or maybe worried that I could never be an author.
Louise Gooding:You know, my spelling's all over the place, I can't spell.
Louise Gooding:And sometimes I've even put up slides of like, this is.
Louise Gooding:This is me when I.
Louise Gooding:When I write a draft, how many spelling mistakes?
Louise Gooding:Or my, my brain is faster than my fingers.
Louise Gooding:And look at this.
Louise Gooding:And they were like, but you're an author.
Louise Gooding:You shouldn't know.
Louise Gooding:Like, please, you know.
Louise Gooding:And that's why again, it was important to include, you know, Carrie Burnell in Wonderfully Wired Brains.
Louise Gooding:You know, she's a very successful children's author now and children's television presenter.
Louise Gooding:Previously.
Louise Gooding:And she, you know, she's dyslexic, so she's having to learn lines and read and reading and writing is a huge part of her world.
Louise Gooding:Kids to be like, oh, okay, like that's, that's not a shut draw to me that, you know, this is not.
Kate Moore Youssef:We're so, we're so lucky in this day and age to have things like spell check and Grammarly and all these things.
Kate Moore Youssef:Like you say, I'm exactly the same.
Kate Moore Youssef:I don't think I've got dyslexia, but I know that there's dyscalculia and probably dysgraphia going on.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I, I'm the same as you.
Kate Moore Youssef:When I write my first draft, it is just, just like everything that I could possibly get out and I read back and then I just thank God that I've got some, you know, some software that can help tidy it all up.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I just think, you know, we are, we are lucky now that that shouldn't have to stop us.
Kate Moore Youssef:That the stuff that goes on in our brains and what comes out onto paper doesn't.
Kate Moore Youssef:It's not our worth.
Kate Moore Youssef:And we can always get help.
Kate Moore Youssef:We can have an editor.
Kate Moore Youssef:We can find someone that is good at that and they can, we can collaborate with them.
Louise Gooding:I mean, Google is amazing.
Louise Gooding:Google.
Louise Gooding:So much of my.
Louise Gooding:Did you mean to write this sentence like this?
Louise Gooding:And I was like, no, you know, yeah, there's so much.
Louise Gooding:I mean, I mean, I think we, I think there's lots of adults who probably had a bit of a tough time, you know, and it's.
Louise Gooding:I think, and I'm going to just speak out here and say, I think it's.
Louise Gooding:We're grateful that technology has changed.
Louise Gooding:We're grateful that our kids have got so much better access to understanding and tools.
Louise Gooding:But I do feel that there carries a little bit of that almost inner sadness of what could I have done?
Louise Gooding:I think so many adults carry that now.
Louise Gooding:Like, I wish that was available to me or what more could I have achieved if only I'd had.
Louise Gooding:And I sometimes have to remind myself not to sit there and feel sad about when I didn't understand because, you know, I still achieved loads of different amazing things and I can't look back and feel sad about it.
Louise Gooding:But I think a lot of adults, sometimes there is that slight sadness of, oh, I wish I had that.
Louise Gooding:So many adults that I wish that this book was available.
Louise Gooding:And I'm like, me too.
Louise Gooding:That's why I wrote it.
Louise Gooding:You know, like, it's.
Louise Gooding:But I just hope that it helps the next generations.
Louise Gooding:And I think we having been through the, I guess it is a bit of trauma, the trauma of not getting that support or help just kind of lights a fire under us.
Louise Gooding:I think really to say, look, no, we don't want it anymore for us and we definitely don't want it for the next generation.
Louise Gooding:So it's really important that.
Louise Gooding:It sounds horrible, but it's important that sometimes people go through the pain of having those experiences without the understanding and support so they can do the, you know, it's a real, real mental toll and it shouldn't have had ever happened to anyone.
Louise Gooding:But it's unfortunately I think how it is and I just hope that I guess our generation just really looks after the next to make sure that they don't have to go through that.
Louise Gooding:Well, what if.
Louise Gooding:Or if only I had access to.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean I hear a lot from women like you and me who've got children with different, you know, things going on, neurodivergence.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I've got two diagnosed, one on the way.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I am just the biggest advocate for helping them and helping them see how brilliant their brains are and really leaning into all their strengths and really helping them, getting the support and speaking to teachers and sending books to the send department and just making sure.
Kate Moore Youssef:Because this is, this is what I wish I'd had.
Kate Moore Youssef:This is what, you know, I wish I'd had teachers that could spot certain things, my parents that could see where the difficulties were.
Kate Moore Youssef:All the masking that went on, the exhaustion of not quite being able to live up to what I thought there was.
Kate Moore Youssef:There was this potential inside me.
Kate Moore Youssef:I could never quite get to it.
Kate Moore Youssef:And yeah, you know, we're playing catch up.
Kate Moore Youssef:And the fact that you've already published three incredible books in the space of time that you have had your diagnosis is unbelievable.
Kate Moore Youssef:So in, is it five or six years you've published three books and, and you got your diagnosis around.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah.
Kate Moore Youssef:So what were you doing?
Kate Moore Youssef:So tell me a little bit about life before pre diagnosis, pre writing books.
Kate Moore Youssef:What was going on for you?
Louise Gooding:I guess I am.
Louise Gooding:I always joke to people I'm like the stereotypical like poster girl of like trying to find herself.
Louise Gooding:I had a million and one hobbies.
Louise Gooding:I never stuck with anything.
Louise Gooding:I was always trying to find the thing that would be my thing.
Louise Gooding:My partner at the time was always like, we have.
Louise Gooding:You have a craft room, Louise.
Louise Gooding:We literally I had a craft room of all of the miss like the hobbies I had started and then got bored.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I know this One well, and.
Louise Gooding:It'S going to be great.
Louise Gooding:I'm going to be an artist.
Louise Gooding:No, I'm not.
Louise Gooding:I'm going to be this or I'm going to do that.
Louise Gooding:I just didn't know.
Louise Gooding:And as I said, because for me especially, I really struggled.
Louise Gooding:I was kind of scared.
Louise Gooding:Scared of education and going back into it.
Louise Gooding:I'm quite open about.
Louise Gooding:About that because I just felt it was inaccessible and I didn't know why.
Louise Gooding:Now I do.
Louise Gooding:As I said, you know, I went back out.
Louise Gooding:She was last year that I went and had further diagnosis and help for.
Louise Gooding:Why.
Louise Gooding:Why was I still struggling?
Louise Gooding:Like, why was I unable to access things I couldn't?
Louise Gooding:You know, having an ADHD diagnosis was great, but where were my strengths and weaknesses?
Louise Gooding:Like, really, I wanted to know more.
Louise Gooding:More.
Louise Gooding:And they.
Kate Moore Youssef:How did you do that?
Kate Moore Youssef:Who did you do that through?
Louise Gooding:I went through.
Louise Gooding:That was.
Louise Gooding:I was in Switzerland at the time and I was at a clinic there because I.
Louise Gooding:I'll be honest, I was having a bit of a mental health breakdown with, you know, my daughter was not having particularly great access to help and support in the Swiss education system.
Louise Gooding:I don't think it's all over everywhere, but where we lived especially, it was not great.
Louise Gooding:And I was talking about that trauma thing.
Louise Gooding:I.
Louise Gooding:I really struggled watching her go through that.
Louise Gooding:And I basically was trying to then obviously keep up with, you know, my work, my writing.
Louise Gooding:And I would be like, but I'm, you know, sometimes I do things and I forget or, you know, I should be doing more.
Louise Gooding:And I want to now go and study this, but I don't know how I go and study this because I'm obviously capable, but I just can't unlock something in my brain.
Louise Gooding:And so I went to this, this clinic and they were fantastic.
Louise Gooding:And I saw an ADHD specialist who basically said, your working memory is really not great.
Louise Gooding:It's you.
Louise Gooding:You have a learning disability because you just don't, you know, unless you.
Louise Gooding:She worked out.
Louise Gooding:If it was done a specific way, I'm good and I'm a.
Louise Gooding:I'm a practical person.
Louise Gooding:Show me.
Louise Gooding:Show me with movement and things and that I.
Louise Gooding:I retain things.
Louise Gooding:Asking me to repeat numbers.
Louise Gooding:If you said to me now, six numbers in a row, I'd probably remember two of them.
Louise Gooding:I just literally can't.
Louise Gooding:My brain just freaks out.
Louise Gooding:And that was my whole thing of, like, I want to go back to education, but I don't know.
Louise Gooding:Again, is it something, you know, I said I was scared before and I was scared now to do it.
Louise Gooding:So that's why I went and had this, this clinic, you know, diagnosis to say, you know, is it a possibility or is there something stopping me or is it just me stopping me because of, you know, past experiences in my school life?
Louise Gooding:So getting that was really, really helpful.
Louise Gooding:But, yeah, beforehand it was, you know, yeah, I was just, I was just doing a bit of everything.
Louise Gooding:I was a children's entertainer for three years, which I absolutely loved, and that worked really well with my personality bouncing around and different themes every week.
Louise Gooding:I, I got told, I think, three days notice that I was going to be on an international radio show, which I knew I was helping organize the Children's Day.
Louise Gooding:And originally I was told, oh, you've got one hour on the radio.
Louise Gooding:I've never been on radio before, a broadcast live.
Louise Gooding:I don't care, it's fine.
Louise Gooding:And then they said, okay, someone's pulled out.
Louise Gooding:Would you mind doing three hours?
Louise Gooding:And this is.
Louise Gooding:And I was on air around the world for three hours, no problem at all.
Louise Gooding:But, you know, and these are experiences, I think, where I've enjoyed.
Louise Gooding:I've discovered bits about myself which I'm always creative.
Louise Gooding:I'm always interested in being crafty.
Louise Gooding:I'm always interested in working with kids.
Louise Gooding:So I guess everything I've done beforehand, I would say has kind of led me to this moment of discovering, well, being a, being a writer is the most creative thing you can do.
Louise Gooding:I always send doodles.
Louise Gooding:I love doodling my poor illustrators.
Louise Gooding:I'm like, what about this?
Louise Gooding:Like, and I'm trying not to tread on the toes because you shouldn't do that with illustrators.
Louise Gooding:But, you know, you talk about the processing thing.
Louise Gooding:When I say about the cat out the bag.
Louise Gooding:I mean, I sent that, that, that, that in with an illustration of a cat in a bag.
Louise Gooding:You know, like, I'm always doodling because that's how my brain, you know, my brain works like that.
Louise Gooding:And even the introduction page where you see me in my dungarees, that's actually from a, an illustration.
Louise Gooding:I sent the publishers to say, this is me, this is who I am.
Louise Gooding:And they gave that illustration to the illustrator to say, can you incorporate Louisa's energy into her introduction page with her magpie, with her squirrels, with her fog?
Louise Gooding:You know, can you, can you do that?
Louise Gooding:So, yeah, I guess all of the things I've done beforehand have always led me.
Louise Gooding:Yeah.
Louise Gooding:To where I am now.
Louise Gooding:And I feel comfortable where I am now.
Louise Gooding:But I tried everything.
Louise Gooding:I was never sure where I was going to be or what I was going to do.
Louise Gooding:I was always, what?
Louise Gooding:What is that?
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm just looking now at the introduction page and yeah, I love it.
Kate Moore Youssef:Absolutely.
Kate Moore Youssef:They've really captured your energy.
Kate Moore Youssef:I hear this all the time of women who spend pretty much their whole life soul searching and looking.
Kate Moore Youssef:Why can't I just stick it?
Kate Moore Youssef:Why can't I just find my thing?
Kate Moore Youssef:And we berate ourselves and we sort of, you know, it's like, why can't I just do it and stay and stay put?
Kate Moore Youssef:And then we get this diagnosis and it's kind of like, okay, and it's a lot more acceptance.
Kate Moore Youssef:And then you start leaning into that creativity.
Kate Moore Youssef:And what's interesting, I can hear you saying that all the things kind of just that you've been doing was building up.
Kate Moore Youssef:And then maybe that diagnosis just gave you that full permission to kind of go, I'm just going to do the thing I'm going to do.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm going to write the books.
Kate Moore Youssef:I also hear a lot of people with adhd, they love writing.
Kate Moore Youssef:I mean, I also love writing and they have lots of incredible ideas.
Kate Moore Youssef:But you went from having the ideas writing proposal, how did you get over the finishing line?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, how's that?
Kate Moore Youssef:You got.
Kate Moore Youssef:Did you get an agent?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like, did you send it out to publishers?
Kate Moore Youssef:How did it work?
Louise Gooding:Yeah, it really is an adhd.
Louise Gooding:Naivety, spontaneity.
Louise Gooding:Just go for it.
Louise Gooding:I had a friend when I was like, I put together this proposal and she was.
Louise Gooding:She'd been writing for years.
Louise Gooding:She was very nice and very supportive.
Louise Gooding:And she's like, yeah, but Louise, just remember, I've been doing this for many, many, many, many, many years.
Louise Gooding:And it doesn't just happen overnight.
Louise Gooding:And, you know, just be aware.
Louise Gooding:And I think I sent it to only three agents.
Louise Gooding:I didn't realize you were meant to send it to, like about 200.
Louise Gooding:And I'm not the person to follow everyone.
Louise Gooding:People need to understand that this does not happen ever.
Louise Gooding:But I sent the just like me proposal to my agency and Madeline Milburn, and the agency just picked it up and said, there's nothing out there like this at the time.
Louise Gooding:And they, they were interested in, you know, what I had to say, why I was doing it, why, why I was so inspired to write these books.
Louise Gooding:And, you know, obviously I'm still with them and they've been, you know, amazingly supportive of sort of helping me write books, which all kind of feature around the brain, didn't mean to.
Louise Gooding:Them all have a brain link, but they all have a brain link.
Louise Gooding:And I was just incredibly lucky.
Louise Gooding:I think, right time, right place.
Louise Gooding:I think the hardest thing with doing this process is it requires a lot of putting yourself out there.
Louise Gooding:And I have other neurodiverse authors who I'm friendly with who have been through the long process of sending out work and getting rejection after rejection, which is incredibly difficult when, you know, as, again, ADHD is.
Louise Gooding:Neurodiverse folk tend to suffer from rsd, you know, rejection sensitivity.
Louise Gooding:And so it's, it's really difficult going in.
Louise Gooding:And even when you're in the door, you still sit there and go, but do they still like me?
Louise Gooding:Am I doing enough?
Louise Gooding:Am I working enough?
Louise Gooding:Am I, do I deserve to be here?
Louise Gooding:Because I feel like, you know, I just plonked myself in here and, you know, as my friend said, a place which takes some people like 5, 10, 20 years to get into, should I be here?
Louise Gooding:All of those things start going around your head again of like, oh, you know, it's a fluke and now I've got to keep going and, oh, maybe I can't write really.
Louise Gooding:And it was just this one thing.
Louise Gooding:And, you know, I've been really lucky with Said, you know, Madeline Milburn as the agency, you know, they've been really encouraging.
Louise Gooding:We've had a few sit downs where I've been at one time like going, you know, am I pigeonholing myself?
Louise Gooding:That's the other thing I worry about.
Louise Gooding:I don't want to just talk for all, you know, neurodivergent people.
Louise Gooding:You know, I get sometimes really worried and they have to sometimes sort of say to me to calm down and like, stop overthinking it.
Louise Gooding:You know, you're doing a good job.
Louise Gooding:And the fact that you sit there and panic constantly shows that you do care.
Louise Gooding:You.
Louise Gooding:It's so important to me that all this is done properly and inclusive.
Louise Gooding:It doesn't feel like it's just kids, you know, and having, you know, adults celebrated.
Louise Gooding:It's.
Louise Gooding:It's important for me to bring that link in so kids could see people.
Louise Gooding:But as I say, not role models.
Louise Gooding:I always say I shouldn't say, I don't like the word role model because I think that we can have people who inspire us to want to be people.
Louise Gooding:It was my eldest daughter who once had a project saying that she came home with homework and said, choose a role model who you want to grow up to be.
Louise Gooding:And she was so angry at the homework.
Louise Gooding:She.
Louise Gooding:Yeah, she's autistic and she's like, I don't want this.
Louise Gooding:I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do the homework.
Louise Gooding:Why not like, like, you know, oh, maybe I was doing typical mums do like, you know, maybe it could be me, it could be someone else.
Louise Gooding:And she just was like, no, because I don't want to grow up to be anyone else because otherwise I'll be like everyone else and I won't grow up to be me.
Louise Gooding:I need to grow up to be me.
Louise Gooding:And that since is then has totally ruined the world.
Louise Gooding:Role model for me because I'm like, I agree with her.
Louise Gooding:I think you need to be your own role model.
Louise Gooding:You need to base yourself and who you want to be on what is important, what your values are, not everyone else's or that person's.
Louise Gooding:Amazing.
Louise Gooding:I'm going to grow up to be like them.
Louise Gooding:Because you're not again, go back to one wide brains.
Louise Gooding:We're not ever going to be, you know, but we can inspire, inspire and do things.
Louise Gooding:So yeah, I'm always really careful with.
Louise Gooding:Yeah, I don't say role models anymore.
Kate Moore Youssef:Well, no, she, you can see how insightful she is.
Kate Moore Youssef:And you know, the autistic brain is just so brilliant because she just saw that and was like, no, not doing that.
Kate Moore Youssef:That's not for me.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm going to do it my way.
Kate Moore Youssef:And that is how, you know, our, our generation were conditioned from the generation before where doing anything different was deemed dangerous.
Kate Moore Youssef:And you always had to sort of stick to.
Kate Moore Youssef:Stick to what we new and never, you know, sort of always stick to conformities, never break out.
Kate Moore Youssef:And now we're seeing this generation below us, our children who are celebrating different, who are happy to stand out from the crowd and stand up for what they believe in.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it's, for us, it's inspiring because we can learn from our children.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I genuinely believe that this book is a book where you can sit down with many different generations and really understand and really pick what, you know, what, what resonates and learn things that we didn't know about.
Kate Moore Youssef:And it's so accessible, so fun, imaginative.
Kate Moore Youssef:And I've got, you know, kids who potentially, if I gave them a book with lots of words with no pictures, they would just not even bother.
Kate Moore Youssef:But with this it feels sort of quite enticing and like, okay, I can read a couple of pages over breakfast or okay, I'll read a couple of pages while I'm having dinner or whatever.
Kate Moore Youssef:So I will make sure that all the links go to the book on the show.
Kate Moore Youssef:Notes.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm intrigued to know, have you got any other books?
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm sure that is a.
Kate Moore Youssef:More ideas bubbling under the surface.
Louise Gooding:Yeah, And I'm still doing brain linked books even though I went for a stage of worrying that that was my thing.
Louise Gooding:But it's what I'm passionate about, it's what I really believe in.
Louise Gooding:So there are some things in the pipelines out there in the world at the moment in various people's hands.
Louise Gooding:Hopefully they pick them up.
Louise Gooding:So I can't, you know, I can't say anything more.
Louise Gooding:I mean, I can hope, I have hope that I can continue doing what I do and I hope that people see that I am passionate about this and you know, I just want to make it easier and safer for kids to, to talk about these things and their feelings and, and to just see it sort of displayed in different ways because, you know, again, sorry, go back to the memory book.
Louise Gooding:Yes, there are lots of lovely books out there which cover dementia but you know, there's, there's always going to be a story which speaks directly to someone and it's more relevant to their experiences, if that makes sense.
Louise Gooding:And again, in that book I put a whole chapter in the back about, you know, how to actually talk to children about dementia and what it is and, you know, how to get help.
Louise Gooding:I think there's always space for more books that talk about neurodivergence and I hope, I hope that the majority of them are written by people who have experienced it.
Louise Gooding:I think it's incredibly important.
Louise Gooding:We have experts who I guess, you know, study it, but I always feel that we can see those books if you're not, I mean, there's some of the books we've read before which are just facts and figures and block texts and they're very like heavy.
Louise Gooding:I think sometimes you need someone who, who wants to find the, the pride and the, and the celebration and, and wants to break through that stigma again.
Louise Gooding:I say with a fire, fire underneath them to be like, no, let's change this up.
Louise Gooding:So hopefully I'm going to write some more and hopefully there are other people inspired to, to do it because I think there's always space for, yeah, more books like this in the world.
Kate Moore Youssef:Yeah, I agree.
Kate Moore Youssef:And lastly, can I ask, I can see, you know, now you've, you've had your diagnosis, you've written these amazing books.
Kate Moore Youssef:You maybe have found that kind of that thing that you were looking for.
Kate Moore Youssef:Do you, do you feel, how do you feel in yourself now that you're starting to understand your brain better?
Kate Moore Youssef:Like do you feel that you have things under control or there still struggles for you?
Louise Gooding:I never have anything to control.
Louise Gooding:Sorry, sorry.
Louise Gooding:I'M just going to be because it's.
Kate Moore Youssef:That'S so important for people to know that they're sort of hearing this and you, and you've got an agent, you've written books and you, you know all of this.
Kate Moore Youssef:But actually it's still a daily kind of challenge, isn't it?
Louise Gooding:Am I doing enough?
Louise Gooding:Am I saying the right things?
Louise Gooding:Am I speaking to the right people?
Louise Gooding:Am I going to be like the one hit wonder and that's it, you know, I disappear, you know, there's all of these anxieties and what comes next?
Louise Gooding:Or should I be, should I be studying more?
Louise Gooding:Should I be doing things more?
Louise Gooding:Should I be backing up a lot of, you know, my work with, you know, should I be now going to university and getting a degree in, like in all of these things?
Louise Gooding:And actually, you know, I have to sometimes give myself a bit of grace and patience.
Louise Gooding:That's the big thing.
Louise Gooding:I some And I have an amazing sister who occasionally I go, she just goes, calm down, let's look at what's happened today.
Louise Gooding:And you know, you know, yes, something craps happened maybe today, but let's look at what you did survive and what you did go through and the sun was shining and, and, and I think, you know, that, that, you know, is amazing for me to have, you know, someone out there who occasionally just goes, just breathe, you're fine.
Louise Gooding:But you know, I, I still haven't got things together.
Louise Gooding:I mean, I've just, I've just moved back to England two weeks ago.
Louise Gooding:I'm in the middle of just chaos and you know, that's my life.
Louise Gooding:It's, it's chaos.
Louise Gooding:And I, you know, would I, would I change it sometimes for a quieter life, but also no, because I think I'd probably get quite bored without the chaos.
Kate Moore Youssef:Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Louise Gooding:We have to learn to, that's part of our, our brain and our, and our life and you know, we can learn to resent it and hate it and, or we can just laugh at all the obstacles it throws at us if we can, you know, I understand, I've been, I've been in dark places too.
Louise Gooding:So I do understand it's, it's sometimes difficult just to hear someone say that when you're not feeling that.
Louise Gooding:But as soon as we can kind of, kind of find the humor and find the positives that we are putting out in the world and if you've not found, you know, found that path yet, maybe it's, you're not, you know, finding your thing yet, as you said earlier.
Louise Gooding:But I think once we have the opportunity to work with our energy and, and to find our positives of what we are putting out there, it's easier to give ourselves a bit more, more patience and, and grace with.
Louise Gooding:Yeah.
Louise Gooding:With who we are.
Louise Gooding:But yeah, not using that energy as a negative source and self down because even if the one thing you did today was pick up a piece of litter on the street, well, good for you.
Louise Gooding:You know, that's amazing.
Louise Gooding:And you've done something which might look like nothing but actually sure has a rolling on effect.
Louise Gooding:I think people need to.
Louise Gooding:Yeah.
Louise Gooding:Give them some ourselves a bit more kindness.
Louise Gooding:So yeah, but I'm just again live ADHD go off on a million tangents.
Kate Moore Youssef:I just think.
Kate Moore Youssef:No, you know what, I genuinely believe that these conversations, these honest conversations where we talk about the vulnerabilities, we talk about the successes and the strengths but we also recognize that it's an ebb and flow and it's, we have the good stuff but the stuff that's not so easy is challenging.
Kate Moore Youssef:And the fact that you know, you're openly admitting there's this imposter syndrome and anxiety and you know, externally people may be sort of seeing you as this celebrated published author but actually just very finely beneath the surface there's all these worries and imposter syndrome and I think it's just important that people know that you can have the success but there's always going to be, you know, the other stuff behind it.
Kate Moore Youssef:But I've just, I've loved this conversation, Louise and I just wanted to thank you for, for your insight.
Kate Moore Youssef:Thank you for sharing all about the book and I will make sure that people know how to get hold of the book and it all goes on the show notes and I look forward to reading your next book which hopefully when it, when you get that deal, let me know and hopefully we'll come back.
Kate Moore Youssef:Thank you, Louise.
Louise Gooding:Thank you.
Kate Moore Youssef:I really hope you enjoyed this week's episode Episode.
Kate Moore Youssef:If you did and it resonated with you, I would absolutely love it if you could share on your platforms or maybe leave a review and a rating wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Kate Moore Youssef:And please do check out my website, ADHD womenswellbeing.co.uk for lots of free resources and paid for workshops.
Kate Moore Youssef:I'm uploading new things all the time and I would absolutely love to see you there.
Kate Moore Youssef:Take care and see for the next episode.
